I'm not going to hold my breath, but I'd love to see some real citizen inclusive vision on this center, with restaurants, gathering spaces, etc built into the center itself with access into the "ticketed area" possible via these spaces. It'd be nice to have a facility that can not only be an arena but also an every day venue.
Given that it is set up to be part of an 'entertainment district', it would be surprising if the new building didn't have some outward facing establishments, if only a food establishment or two and a team store.
__________________
"The Oilers are like a buffet with one tray of off-brand mac-and-cheese and the rest of it is weird Jell-O."
Greg Wyshynski, ESPN
I'm not going to hold my breath, but I'd love to see some real citizen inclusive vision on this center, with restaurants, gathering spaces, etc built into the center itself with access into the "ticketed area" possible via these spaces. It'd be nice to have a facility that can not only be an arena but also an every day venue.
Some public outdoor hockey rinks that could be used as basketball courts in the summer would be cool. Plus the rinks could be used from time to time for Flames practices/Flames community outreach events. Or something else in the vein of public space that promotes physical activity.
The Following User Says Thank You to flames_fan_down_under For This Useful Post:
You mean the homeless / junkie daytime drop-in centre?
Don't forget people who would like to study or work at home but - for whatever reason beyond their control - can't: like loud, alcoholic or drug-addicted roommates or family members or substandard living conditions. The library is also accessible to nearly everyone given that it's on two C-train lines.
I hope the outer appearance of the new arena is as iconic in the skyline as the Saddledome.
I think the only disclaimer should be that the study listed is looking at a library system that was more widespread and broader reaching.
In comparison to the Calgary investing the money in revamping a single central library.
Not 100% clear if you get the same return on a single library vs having a more broad and accessible network of libraries across multiple locations.
This is certainly true, but I just wanted to use real studies and statistics to disprove a common criticism I hear about public library expenditure. I would imagine that the real impact from this library is less, but economic return on proper public amenities is real- and as Makarov pointed out, that is not even accounting for the myriad of public benefits that can't be quantified economically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatle17
If you are going to include direct/indirect impact on wages etc., you have to do that with the arena project also. How much do the teams/events spend on employee wages and costs for food/goods used. Then when you expand the wages and goods to outside facilities such as restaurants, bars, cabs etc., (which this report does to show impact on outside groups) the number would have to be in the billions. I am sure the report does not show what you thought it was going to show. So if we use your number of $2.38/1$ then the arena will provide $645.5 M on the city contribution only. You can not use the report/calculation on only projects that you choose to champion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatle17
Excellent comment and thanks for making it.
I agree that both buildings are great and needed by different groups of people. We need all types of new facilities and everyone arguing for what they think is important just drives everyone apart.
I wasn't going to belabor my point, but your initial comment was clearly created to compare economic impact from a library vs an arena in a negative light, and I hear this all too often. I really feel like you didn't read what I wrote, because you came to some ridiculous conclusions. Both are worthwhile projects for our city, but only one shows real economic impact (the library.) The arena is more of a city pride/ vanity type of deal.
1. You have engendered a real problem with public amenity spending by saying that both amenities are needed for different groups of people. That doesn't apply to these two projects. The 'need' for a new NHL arena only extends to the business trying to profit off of it. The 'need' for a new public library extends from the entire population (yourself included- or have you really never used a library before? If that is the case I pity you as you are missing out!)
Are interest groups behind the drive for these amenities? Yes absolutely. But to qualify the civic need as equal is wrong. Just because you want a comfier seat at flames games does not put the priority on equal footing with ensuring public access to knowledge and education. The fact that you able to afford said comfier seat is likely exactly why you see them as equal- privilege.
2. the $2.38/$1 ratio cannot be applied to publicly financing an arena, because that is a statistic specifically applied to public library funding in Indiana. arena =/ library, inspite of the general noise volume at the dome. https://postmediacalgaryherald2.file...y=55&strip=all
That is a link to the city's economic impact estimate for the arena. You will note that their estimate already includes indirect impacts like wages and community impact, while the library figure does not.
So- the balance
Arena= $275 million investment by city ---> $400 million over 35 years (including indirect estimates)
Library= $245 million investment by the city ---> ~$500 million in direct economic impact with additional indirect impact unaccounted for
Even if you don't believe the library here will generate the same amount of economic impact as a library in Indiana, the gap is still pretty substantial.
Anyways, I am also happy that an arena deal was reached with the city and we can put this behind us. Calgarians do deserve a world class entertainment venue. I am of the opinion that private industry should be footing more of the bill, but in the end just glad it is coming. I will not stand for more people belittling public investment in worthwhile projects, like the library, and waving their hands about economic impact when it is clearly false.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Monahammer For This Useful Post:
Don't forget people who would like to study or work at home but - for whatever reason beyond their control - can't: like loud, alcoholic or drug-addicted roommates or family members or substandard living conditions. The library is also accessible to nearly everyone given that it's on two C-train lines.
I hope the outer appearance of the new arena is as iconic in the skyline as the Saddledome.
I think that will be hard. Will definitely miss that part of the Saddledome.
But there is also an argument for an arena that blends into the surrounding area - the trick is to have a surrounding area worth blending into.
I just came back from Vegas, and that area that is around the T Mobile Center is amazing. I didn't get to catch a game or be there during, but that was everything I imagined an arena and surrounding area should be. Beautiful, vibrant, full of establishments in and out, and a massive area to watch just outside.
I just came back from Vegas, and that area that is around the T Mobile Center is amazing. I didn't get to catch a game or be there during, but that was everything I imagined an arena and surrounding area should be. Beautiful, vibrant, full of establishments in and out, and a massive area to watch just outside.
Inside is great. I really like the ease of access in and out, the food facilities, seating options, etc.
Naturally Vegas has a lot of entertainment and food but they've really worked on that particular area. Lots of good food options - the kind you want. Pubs, Shake Shack, Sushi, etc. Huge outodoor area for bands, rallies, etc.
I just came back from Vegas, and that area that is around the T Mobile Center is amazing. I didn't get to catch a game or be there during, but that was everything I imagined an arena and surrounding area should be. Beautiful, vibrant, full of establishments in and out, and a massive area to watch just outside.
Part of the challenge with the outdoor space is to have something that isn't just empty barren space 300 days a year. Jurassic Park/Maple Leaf Square in Toronto is very well done. A lot of folks don't know that it is a one block dead end road most of the time.
__________________
"The Oilers are like a buffet with one tray of off-brand mac-and-cheese and the rest of it is weird Jell-O."
Greg Wyshynski, ESPN
I will be interested in the outdoor plan for the venue. Vegas is probably a little easier since they aren't dealing with -30 weather, but having said that, if they can make it a gathering place in the summer, it would go a long ways in avoiding the area becoming a ghost town for non game days/seasons.
Edit: Does anyone know how much space they have allocated for this thing? Will there be room for parks/ponds/rinks, or will it be surrounded by parking lots and BPs?
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
Last edited by Fighting Banana Slug; 12-06-2019 at 02:55 PM.
I will be interested in the outdoor plan for the venue. Vegas is probably a little easier since they aren't dealing with -30 weather, but having said that, if they can make it a gathering place in the summer, it would go a long ways in avoiding the area becoming a ghost town for non game days/seasons.
Edit: Does anyone know how much space they have allocated for this thing? Will there be room for parks/ponds/rinks, or will it be surrounded by parking lots and BPs?
This rendering posted on the city's webpage certainly seems to indicate that the vision is to integrate with public outdoor spaces for a year-round gathering place.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
