Practice notes Dec 3 - major forward line shakeup

[Samonadreau]

Tkachuk-Lindholm just makes too much sense to at least try.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by badger89

No wonder they play so soft if this is their pump up music.

The change of music is new.

[DazzlinDino]

An opportunity to play on a top line on an NHL team, what happens when that opportunity is taken for granted? I really like what the coach has done with these practice line because you can't have 2 guys holding the team hostage. Tkachuk, Lindholm, Mangiapane showing some leadership so why not give them the reins see where it goes!!

[Reggie Dunlop]

Mangiapane on the top line makes me happy.

Maybe he levels out as a dependable second-liner, but that's a heckuva return on a sixth rounder who's still relatively wet-behind-the-ears.

A bit like the Mark Giordano story. Undrafted in the OHL. Over-age late round NHL pick. You kinda root for these types of underdogs.

[atb]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Mangiapane on the top line makes me happy.

Maybe he levels out as a dependable second-liner, but that's a heckuva return on a sixth rounder who's still relatively wet-behind-the-ears.

A bit like the Mark Giordano story. Undrafted in the OHL. Over-age late round NHL pick. You kinda root for these types of underdogs.

Hopefully Mangiapane uses the next off-season to work on leg strength. He shows the tenacity and will to battle to the net and down low, but ends up being pushed over far too often.

[gamesaver]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Gaudreau is 2nd on the team in scoring...not a top six is a bit harsh IMO. I really don't care about all these situations and cherry picked stats. There is ONE guy on the team with more points.

With these lines though the 1-3 ranking doesn't really matter...and Gaudreau will be on the #1 PP. Might make it harder for the other team to line match.

Chances are we talk about this all week and it lasts 5 min anyway

Seems like something we are gonna talk about for 3 days and will last 5 minutes

Remember when Dion played forward? It was the talk of the town and he only played the opening shift at forward then went back to D

If you look at points stats only, Johnny is above average top six forward. However if you watch him play, it's obvious he is playing deep below his capabilities. Lot of his point are secondary assists on PP goals when he simply moved the puck to the next guy. Last game he got primary assist on the empty net goal. Also he is good for atleast one or two breakaway misses per game. None of this is a standard for him. It's fair to say he is never a difference maker in Flames' win, as he is supposed to. When Flames win, it's usually because of Lindholm, Tkachuk and Rittich.

[gamesaver]

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube
Lucic - Backlund - Frolik
Jankovski - Ryan - anyone

I would keep Johnny and Mony together. They will figure it out eventually, but sheltering them as a second line could help. Also the 3rd line is 2/3 of 3M line + Lucic. Seems like a hell of a shutdown line to me.

[1qqaaz]

Czarnik has more points in 8 games than Jankowski and Reider have combined in 46 games.

If he's healthy, he should get time on the 4th line imo.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Czarnik has more points in 8 games than Jankowski and Reider have combined in 46 games.

If he's healthy, he should get time on the 4th line imo.

Depends what they need the player to do. Both of those guys are on the PK for example, and Czarnik isn't.

[Toonage]

If the idea is to play more disciplined and up the offense, you get Czarnik back in there pronto. Not a prolific scorer by any means but was starting to produce right before going down. Also plays well with Jankowski so maybe, just maybe, he gets going a bit too.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by gamesaver

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube
Lucic - Backlund - Frolik
Jankovski - Ryan - anyone

I would keep Johnny and Mony together. They will figure it out eventually, but sheltering them as a second line could help. Also the 3rd line is 2/3 of 3M line + Lucic. Seems like a hell of a shutdown line to me.

I really like those lines.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Toonage

If the idea is to play more disciplined and up the offense, you get Czarnik back in there pronto. Not a prolific scorer by any means but was starting to produce right before going down. Also plays well with Jankowski so maybe, just maybe, he gets going a bit too.

I thought Czarnik was starting to gain some momentum (points in three straight games before he got injured) -- I would find room in the top 9 purely to try and get more offence; at the very least he adds a heavy shot to PP2.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by gamesaver

Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube
.

This line looks a very tiny and soft but incredibly skilled line

[Harry Lime]

I don't really understand the keep Johnny and Monny together mentality. It's been over 60 games since they really worked well together. They are not figuring it out.

Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Backlund
Frolik-Jankowski-Czarnik

I think that Monahan goes back to centre and Gaudreau back into a scoring role. But I would keep them both apart. Tkachuk is a really underrated playmaker, because Backlund never finishes his setups.

Speaking of Backlund, he is the one that I would try on the wing. He loves coming down the right side with speed, but doesn't do it much because it puts him out of position as a centre. That line would have some great grinding, defensive acumen, and it would put the shut down line as the third line where it belongs.

Swap Ryan and Backlund, if you're a purist.

This is the change I would have made 15 games ago, when it was clear that the first line wasn't going to produce as it was constructed.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by bax

Hasn’t been playing like a top 6 forward?

Gaudreau has had a bad stretch of 20 games by his standards for sure but he still has 21 points in 29 games.

14 points in his last 20 games.

No those aren’t superstar numbers like we are used to seeing him put up, but very much respectable as a top 6 forward.

But points!

If you watch Gaudreau closely this year he’s been terrible.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I don't really understand the keep Johnny and Monny together mentality. It's been over 60 games since they really worked well together. They are not figuring it out.

Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Backlund
Frolik-Jankowski-Czarnik

I think that Monahan goes back to centre and Gaudreau back into a scoring role. But I would keep them both apart. Tkachuk is a really underrated playmaker, because Backlund never finishes his setups.

Speaking of Backlund, he is the one that I would try on the wing. He loves coming down the right side with speed, but doesn't do it much because it puts him out of position as a centre. That line would have some great grinding, defensive acumen, and it would put the shut down line as the third line where it belongs.

Swap Ryan and Backlund, if you're a purist.

This is the change I would have made 15 games ago, when it was clear that the first line wasn't going to produce as it was constructed.

I think Tkachuk and Monahan makes all kinds of sense just from where each likes to play. I'd still go with Backlund on that line because of defence plus the extra centre like Monahan has with Lindholm now.

That would give each of the top two lines two players with top line quality plus another decent winger.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Czarnik has more points in 8 games than Jankowski and Reider have combined in 46 games.

If he's healthy, he should get time on the 4th line imo.

I have been one of the biggest Czarnik critics since he joined the team, and I totally agree with you. Frolik, Jankowski and Reider are redundant. Three players who bring more or less the same thing. While penalty killing and fore-checking is valuable you don't need a whole line of one dimensional players. Czarnik, while nearly useless in his own end at least makes that line have a little bit of attack so that teams don't just put their most offensive 5 players on the ice with no fear of the play coming the other way.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I would still like to see the following:


Gaudreau - Monahan - X
Tkachuk - Lindholm - X
Bennett - Backlund - X
Lucic - Ryan - X


Mangiapane, Czarnik, Frolik, Jankowski, Dube, Rinaldo, Anyone else can rotate through those lines until chemistry is found.


Centres 'control' the game much more effectively than wingers. Make Lindholm a centre. Backlund is a fine 2nd line centre, but dropping him down makes him an absolute elite 3rd line centre with a 3rd line that you can deploy in any situation and not worry about getting matched against. It automatically makes this team a bit deeper.



If Ward wants to continue playing Lindholm as a winger, then let's try something like this:


Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - X
Jankowski - Bennett - X
Lucic - Ryan - X


(Again, the 'Xs' are rotating through until something sticks with the remaining players). Give that third line 20 or 30 games and see how it can do. Bennett has good speed, he is good at faceoffs, and he has been good defensively for a long stretch. Give him the opportunity to 'relax' in that role for a while as he was supposed to, and finally settle the argument if he is a 'good centre or not'. I see him as a Brayden Schenn type - plays hard and is good at both ends.



In the first line-up, just roll those lines. You won't be worried about a bad match-up since lines 2-4 are all good defensively. You could literally roll 4 lines IMO.


In the 2nd, of course the third line will require a bit more sheltering at first to see how they respond. Play them as much as the 4th line, while keeping the top 2 lines with more minutes.


This whole team is in a bit of a funk, so pointing at Gaudreau and stating that he sucks now is not an argument that makes sense to me. Slotting him down into the third line on an actual game night is just going to further erode his confidence. There is not a single issue with Gaudreau's compete level. I always see him being one of the harder-working players out there game in and game out, with only a few exceptions. Kid is very competitive. I think it is totally a confidence issue at this point. Hopefully Ward is a better coach at encouraging confidence than Peters was.



This team needs to play up-tempo to succeed, and IMO, it starts first and foremost from the back-end. Gulutzan made this team play slow with is 5-man unit with practically zero chances at creating odd-man rushes. This team's rushing ability and corresponding higher scoring percentage plays seem to come off the rush. Starts with that defencemen making that strong first pass and/or joining the rush.



For all his warts, Bob Hartley was really good at getting the Flames to breakout quickly - this team was always 'dangerous' in that way, even if they weren't a very talented squad top to bottom. He was also really good at making forwards rotate and cover (you could hear him yelling on the bench at a player during a broadcast who didn't rotate back). I would like to see exactly that as a strategy, and now that there is a significant increase in talent, change the defence structure to actually be more puckhounds and challenge for the puck more rather than collapsing.



Brodie, Giordano, Hanifin, Andersson and Kylington can all make a really good first pass, while Stone and Hamonic are better at battling for lose pucks to cause turnovers.


Doesn't help much in whatever system is employed if you are continually sending pucks into skates and causing unnecessary puck battles and turnovers. That's a confidence thing right now that Ward is going to have to make some headway in. Every team that plays this way looks as slow as molasses on the ice.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I don't really understand the keep Johnny and Monny together mentality. It's been over 60 games since they really worked well together. They are not figuring it out.

Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube
Lucic-Ryan-Backlund
Frolik-Jankowski-Czarnik

I think that Monahan goes back to centre and Gaudreau back into a scoring role. But I would keep them both apart. Tkachuk is a really underrated playmaker, because Backlund never finishes his setups.

Speaking of Backlund, he is the one that I would try on the wing. He loves coming down the right side with speed, but doesn't do it much because it puts him out of position as a centre. That line would have some great grinding, defensive acumen, and it would put the shut down line as the third line where it belongs.

Swap Ryan and Backlund, if you're a purist.

This is the change I would have made 15 games ago, when it was clear that the first line wasn't going to produce as it was constructed.

I agree with this and am tired of seeing them play together with mediocre to no success. They need some substantial time apart to rediscover their games