Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Ok, let's say a crypto newbie has seen that the government clearly can and will take your money whenever they feel like for some arbitrary reason.
What are the basic steps one would take to hedge one's finances with some crypto? Which crypto would you suggest for money storage - BTC? Obviously, I think, private wallet? Which one? Thanks.

I will point out the obvious flaw in your reasoning here Vlad, if the Government are going to freeze you out they will also prevent you cashing out your crypto, while they may not be able to seize it that can effectively freeze it

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Ok, let's say a crypto newbie has seen that the government clearly can and will take your money whenever they feel like for some arbitrary reason.
What are the basic steps one would take to hedge one's finances with some crypto? Which crypto would you suggest for money storage - BTC? Obviously, I think, private wallet? Which one? Thanks.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...cy-donated-to/

Ontario court freezes millions in cash, cryptocurrency donated to Ottawa protesters

[karl262]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...cy-donated-to/

A government freezing crypto is only possible if it's kept on a regulated exchange.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I will point out the obvious flaw in your reasoning here Vlad, if the Government are going to freeze you out they will also prevent you cashing out your crypto, while they may not be able to seize it that can effectively freeze it

There are many many ways to "cash out" crypto that the government cannot stop you from doing.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by karl262

There are many many ways to "cash out" crypto that the government cannot stop you from doing.

How can it be done? Genuinely asking, not asking in a confrontational manner.

Sending crypto to another user/wallet in exchange for fiat would make that person an accessory to a crime.

[opendoor]

Unless a person wanted to put their money in crypto for investment purposes, I would think an offshore bank account (for large sums of money) or cash in a non-bank safety deposit box (for smaller sums of money) would be a more effective way to store money beyond the government's control. More stable (in terms of value), secure, and easier to use.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

How can it be done? Genuinely asking, not asking in a confrontational manner.

Sending crypto to another user/wallet in exchange for fiat would make that person an accessory to a crime.

Depends on what the end goal is really and what type of crypto. If I wanted to generate revenue completely off grid I'd get some monero, probably by mining it. So instead of straight up buying crypto on an exchange you'd spend that on some mining rigs and electricity, a good strategy because the equipment itself will retain value. In time you'd have mined the equivalent in crypto that you spent on computers and just keep going.

The IRS has a $625k bounty for anyone that can crack moneros privacy, almost 2 years and no luck.

Spending the monero you've mined is then just a matter of walking up to a crypto atm and taking out cash after you've flipped it into something it accepts if it doesn't take monero. Use a non kyc private wallet. Or buy precious metals with the crypto, or cars or houses or prepaid credit cards.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I will point out the obvious flaw in your reasoning here Vlad, if the Government are going to freeze you out they will also prevent you cashing out your crypto, while they may not be able to seize it that can effectively freeze it

Obviously, the point would be to use it in a country with more robust rule of law than Canada, such as Belarus or Guatemala...

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Longterm storage with minimal risk? A pure stable coin LP farm on Polygon stuffed into a Ledger X not merged with a Web3 wallet. Will earn a passive 20-30% APY and would only be accessible through a cold wallet.

Can you recommend a stable coin LP with that high of an APY?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Obviously, the point would be to use it in a country with more robust rule of law than Canada, such as Belarus or Guatemala...

I believe Cyprus is good for that as well

[Fuzz]

Spoiler!

I'd recommend against putting it all into the Freedom Convoy Token.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Spoiler!

I'd recommend against putting it all into the Freedom Convoy Token.

Buy the dip!!!!

[jammies]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Ok, let's say a crypto newbie has seen that the government clearly can and will take your money whenever they feel like for some arbitrary reason.

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Obviously, the point would be to use it in a country with more robust rule of law than Canada, such as Belarus or Guatemala...

Aren't you a lawyer? Doesn't that imply a basic grasp on how the law works and the need to use precise terms when discussing it? "Arbitrary reasons" aren't the same as "lawful reasons I nevertheless disagree with" nor is "more robust rule of law" equivalent to "the assets of criminals are less likely to be frozen".

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Obviously, the point would be to use it in a country with more robust rule of law than Canada, such as Belarus or Guatemala...

Never go full Theo.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by bootsnixon

Thought this was some notable news:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/intel-to-...-efficient-gpu

“We expect that our circuit innovations will deliver a blockchain accelerator that has over 1,000x better performance per watt than mainstream GPUs for SHA-256 based mining,” Intel's General Manager for Graphics, Raja Koduri, said in the announcement. (SHA-256 is a reference to the mining algorithm used to create Bitcoins.)

Could possibly make a drastic reduction in Bitcoin mining electrical demand.

I said earlier in the thread that computer advances would advance faster than the posted $1Billion electrical cost to mine the last Bitcoin, and there you have it, thanks for the share.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I said earlier in the thread that computer advances would advance faster than the posted $1Billion electrical cost to mine the last Bitcoin, and there you have it, thanks for the share.

If quantum computers enter the fray, wouldn’t that make it virtually impossible for anybody else to mine them profitably without access to such computing power? If the difficulty gets upped, it seems like it would kill the mining industry.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Ok, let's say a crypto newbie has seen that the government clearly can and will take your money whenever they feel like for some arbitrary reason.
What are the basic steps one would take to hedge one's finances with some crypto? Which crypto would you suggest for money storage - BTC? Obviously, I think, private wallet? Which one? Thanks.

The government doesn't have access to self custodial services.

By self custodial we are talking about something where you control the keys. Ledger is maybe the most popular service.
https://www.ledger.com/

If you are trying to hold crypto to hedge against government overreach, the weak point is custodial exchanges that require KYC where you either hold crypto, or sell crypto for FIAT. Coinbase or Crypto.com are the most popular.

If the government has reason to believe you hold crypto and are trying to target it, they will issue court orders (or just invoke the Emergency Act) and tell these exchanges they need to provide information on you, and freeze your account. These exchanges would have no choice and you would have no access to whatever you are holding on their platform.

Where it gets tricky after that is if you hold crypto on a self custodial service like Ledger. Theoretically the government has no way of knowing it is you unless they are tracing transfers of saying BTC from a wallet of interest into yours as everything on the BTC blockchain can be monitored even if they don't specifically know who the wallet address actually belongs too.

With the protestors, if they were using an exchange like Coinbase to accept the BTC donations, and then converting them to fiat from there, the government could freeze those funds. Even if the wallet owner transferred the BTC off of the Coinbase exchange into a Ledger wallet, and for whatever reason transferred it to your Ledger wallet, the government could trace that BTC and keep monitoring it. If you ever wanted to sell it, they could freeze your account and charge you for possession of illegal goods.

However it is relatively easy to get around that, as you could always sell your BTC to XMR on a decentralized exchange, and then move your XMR around to a few different wallets, convert it back to BTC or something else, and then sell that for FIAT on any exchange. I'm not quite sure how the government would track that specifically, but XMR is almost impossible to trace if you manage it properly.

Basically if I were you and you want to hold crypto as a hedge, buy whatever you think is best and hold it in a Ledger Wallet. There are guides to follow in order minimize your exposure as you move your crypto to your Ledger wallet.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I will point out the obvious flaw in your reasoning here Vlad, if the Government are going to freeze you out they will also prevent you cashing out your crypto, while they may not be able to seize it that can effectively freeze it

I am seeing this getting said a lot and it is fascinating to read as it shows a massive ignorance of how crypto works.

There are hundreds of guides online that tell you how to get around this specific issue. If someone is dumb enough to use a centralized exchange, hold their crypto there, or even use the custodial crypto address to accept donations, obviously the government will direct those exchanges to freeze the accounts.

However, provided someone isn't a complete moron, and assuming that you are trying to step around government interference, why would they used a centralized exchange that requires KYC?

For $100 I can buy a hardware wallet, obscure my crypto transactions, and move crypto around relatively easy. Even if the government is tracking specific BTC via wallets & transactions they are monitoring, I would just need to convert it to XMR, and further obscure the trail from there.

Also, it is possible to sell XMR for cash in every single major city in Canada.

You can also use Atomic Swaps to transfer XMR to BTC and sell for fiat.
You can use decentralized exchanges to sell for fiat.
You can use P2P trading platforms to sell for fiat.

In a nutshell, it would be possible to move crypto around from wallet to wallet as needed, and sell for fiat as needed, especially if you want to sell for cash.

The fact that the government was sending orders to self custodial services asking them to 'freeze accounts' shows me that there is a massive level of ignorance across the board on how crypto works, which explains the sudden grab interest in thinking they can regulate it via updated legislation.

The more government intrusion you will see into crypto, the more services will become available helping people hide & obscure their movements.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by jammies

Aren't you a lawyer? Doesn't that imply a basic grasp on how the law works and the need to use precise terms when discussing it? "Arbitrary reasons" aren't the same as "lawful reasons I nevertheless disagree with" nor is "more robust rule of law" equivalent to "the assets of criminals are less likely to be frozen".

Not interested in a pointless debate. Just the mechanics of owning crypto - hence why I posted in the Crypto thread, and not one of many available political threads...

[Azure]

In the bigger scheme of things, crypto is going to decentralize a lot of stuff, and most of it for the better.

The biggest benefit is it takes away power from an authoritarian government, and moves toward a more decentralized system where power & financial authority is more localized.

Everyone needs to look at this beyond the lens of the politically motivated & emotionally charged 'protestors are bad' rhetoric that we now have in Canada.

We are living in a world where the 'free' governments are routinely spying on their own citizens (see latest CIA / NSA revelations in the US) without any kind of judicial oversight, and because of the politically motivated voting base, it is either being seen as 'okay' if people align with you politically, or not okay if their political views are different. This is very evident in the threads regarding the trucker protests, where people are okay with extreme government overreach and no oversight, but in a different environment those people who obviously be very critical of said government overreach.

That is why crypto is essential to helping the populace fight back against increasingly authoritarian governments across the world who operate without any regard for liberties and freedoms that are essential to any free country.