[PGT] Flames lose to Hurricanes 3-2

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I'll take the under on .911 which is his career average.

As a finish? That would be tough at .889 through 25% of the season (and perhaps more than 25% if Vladar gets more starts than he has)

If he's at say 30% of his starts and he runs out his career average the rest of the way he finishes at .904

I like his chances of getting into that .900 to .905 range by the end of the year. If he does he provides his career average goaltending for the team's final 61 games

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CroCop

I’m gonna stand behind it. After quarter season we are outside looking in the west, 5th in division, 20th overall and that is after a franchise best start.

Our goalie is broken. The forward group has no finish, chemistry or fire. The D has been an absolute disaster in our own zone. Finally our head coach is suddenly showing signs that the game is moving past him.

The Flames need to be a lot better to put themselves into a playoff spot and keep it but only a little worse to fall into a lottery position and the way they are trending lends credence to my earlier statement. A wasted year and a top 3 pick could be a real good thing for the franchise after this year.

I've certainly learned over the years that when a team has the statistically worst schedule in the circuit over the first quarter AND the 32nd ranked PDO it's a pretty good bet they rebound.

Very rare for teams not to move back to the middle when both are so extreme.

[Rejean31]

I think Markstrom is overrated. Bottom line. In 378 career starts the guy has lost more games than he has won. 177 wins and 202 losses, granted 45 of the losses were OT or SO losses, but losses all the same.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Some interesting comments from Bieksa and Hrudey last night...

They thought that the top line was allowed to play differently last year - the other 3 lines had to play Sutter hockey, but the top line was allowed to create.

This year, no line is allowed - they are all playing dump and chase.

I think there is some truth in this

100% this. You can sense it in Huberdeau. Every time his line dumps it in with a 40% chance of recovering it he probably drops his head and thinks to himself "so this is my life now".

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

I think Markstrom is overrated. Bottom line. In 378 career starts the guy has lost more games than he has won. 177 wins and 202 losses, granted 45 of the losses were OT or SO losses, but losses all the same.

Playing on some bad Canucks teams certainly doesn't help though. He's 67-52 as a Flame.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

I think Markstrom is overrated. Bottom line. In 378 career starts the guy has lost more games than he has won. 177 wins and 202 losses, granted 45 of the losses were OT or SO losses, but losses all the same.

well, except they aren't just the same

[Classic_Sniper]

Well that was quite an ugly end to the road trip. 3 consecutive, well deserved losses. Can’t say I’m surprised though, I didn’t expect 50 wins again from this roster. I wonder if this is probably what we’ll see the rest of the way, a team that makes winning look hard, sort of like the 2021 shortened year where it was a tough slog seemingly every game.

Now that we’re a quarter way through the season, I think there’s a big enough sample size to make some serious evaluations. The first one that I have noticed is the inconsistency in the way they check. Last year’s team played Darryl’s system almost perfectly whereas this team leaves a lot to be desired. I think that’s a big reason why they’re giving up more goals this season because their inability to check effectively especially in the offensive zone and through the middle of the ice has lead to more opportunities for the opposition to counter attack.

Secondly, there has hasn’t been enough consistent offensive traction throughout the lineup. Very much like the 2021 season, you never know what you’re going to get from game to game or even shift to shift. We don’t know which line is going to show up or not show up, it’s a complete guessing game compared to last season where there were at least 2 lines you could depend on each night. This type of inconsistency and lack of traction offensively just means it’ll be tough to count on a specific number of goals every night. If this is a 3-2 league, then it’s tough to consistently win when you don’t know if you’re getting 4 in one game or 1 the very next night.

Lastly, Jacob Markstrom. A quarter way through and he’s still sitting at a .889 save%. He’s making it very difficult for the guys in front of him to win when he’s spotting the opposition a goal seemingly every game. This team statistically has not scored at the same rate as last season, so that means Markstrom has to be even better than what he was a year ago, which clearly has not been the case. I get that the team has made his job a little more difficult as outlined by my first point, but this is a $6M goaltender here. He’s paid to be an elite goaltender and he has to better or this team doesn’t have a chance at making the playoffs.

[Sec214]

If teams call you asking for any of your players. You accept those offers.

Rooney or Dube hit waivers.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by jayswin

100% this. You can sense it in Huberdeau. Every time his line dumps it in with a 40% chance of recovering it he probably drops his head and thinks to himself "so this is my life now".

Just wish people covering the game and fans of the team remembered it was EXACTLY THE SAME when Sutter first came and worked with his skill players.

First structure, then freedom.

These are the same people that predicted a slow start, strong finish for the team. Sure it's like this right now and we can all be sad about it, but Sutter is playing the long game like he always does. It always works, and people are always surprised. It's raining it's sunny

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by jayswin

100% this. You can sense it in Huberdeau. Every time his line dumps it in with a 40% chance of recovering it he probably drops his head and thinks to himself "so this is my life now".

I hate dump and chase hockey. It exists so that a bigger and tougher team can wear down their opponents and essentially make a more talented team play down to the level of a lesser talent.

"We have the puck! What do we do?"
"Dump it in!"
"We no longer have the puck!"
"Go get it!"
"!!!!"

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by jayswin

100% this. You can sense it in Huberdeau. Every time his line dumps it in with a 40% chance of recovering it he probably drops his head and thinks to himself "so this is my life now".

I think it’s more so that Huberdeau physically can’t, rather than it being Sutter’s call. It’s not his game, it’s the reason why he’s not the bump back option on the PP. He’s not like Gaudreau who could comfortably push the puck up the ice weaving through traffic while cutting through the middle of the ice east-west.

The sad reality is that the team lost their 2 best transition players in Tkachuk and Gaudreau and that ability wasn’t replaced. Kadri isn’t too bad, but he’s no Gaudreau or Tkachuk and that’s a big reason why the team can’t score on the rush at the same rate last season. This team doesn’t really score the fancy or easy goals, they have to work hard for their goals which is why winning games looks so difficult seemingly every game.

Last year the top line could torch the opposition for 4 goals and the team would win 5-1 with ease, now every game is like a nail bitter and we can’t score enough to make the game completely out of reach.

[Harry Lime]

As for Dube, he has shown flashes on the PK, where he is playing centre with Mangiapane, and last year when he played third line centre. It's almost as if he is better as a centre.

It would be a waste to put him in with two plugs centering the fourth line, but what if those two guys weren't plugs? You can rotate Lucic-Rooney-Lewis-Ritchie on the left side, and put Phillips or Ben Jones on the other side, and just let them play a high energy checking game with finish.

Dube doesn't have to wing a dump and chase game in the corners, it's just what he's been asked to do. I think that Mangiapane is suffering from dump and chase-itis as well, as he thrives on the give and go/ or crashing the net on the rush. We haven't seen either of those plays all year.

[topfiverecords]

This 3-2 loss to possibly the cup winners isn’t the one that wrote off the season. This forum is so ahead of itself lately.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I hate dump and chase hockey. It exists so that a bigger and tougher team can wear down their opponents and essentially make a more talented team play down to the level of a lesser talent.

"We have the puck! What do we do?"
"Dump it in!"
"We no longer have the puck!"
"Go get it!"
"!!!!"

It is all any of the Sutters understand. Unless this coach sets the top two lines and allows them to get creative with their skills it seems pretty obvious that his plan, regardless of the player(s), is to coach the entire team back to "old time Western Canadian hockey".

[Mathgod]

I don't think many people are saying the season is a write off. People are mostly just pointing out that the team has seemed all out of sorts over the past month and it's a little bit worrying.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I hate dump and chase hockey. It exists so that a bigger and tougher team can wear down their opponents and essentially make a more talented team play down to the level of a lesser talent.

"We have the puck! What do we do?"
"Dump it in!"
"We no longer have the puck!"
"Go get it!"
"!!!!"

Dump and chase is necessary though. It’s the NHL, the middle of the ice is always clogged up and the majority of players aren’t skilled enough to beat the trap without turning the puck over. So you have to dump and chase because it’s the safest way to gain entry into the opposition’s zone without giving up a goal against.

Also, I don’t think any coach wants their team to play dump and chase exclusively, it’s just this current Flames team doesn’t have good transition players. We lost our 2 best in Gaudreau and Tkachuk and didn’t replace them with anyone comparable.

So it’s really no surprise that this team has to dump and chase, it’s because they have to. It takes a lot of skill and talent to score on the rush in today’s NHL and the Flames don’t have the horses that can do that anymore.

[Harry Lime]

Bring back Jagr.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Bring back Jagr.

Hey, I'm all for chaos...lets do it!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Sec214

If teams call you asking for any of your players. You accept those offers.

Rooney or Dube hit waivers.

This post is beyond ridiculous. We are not rebuilding, get the F over it.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

As a finish? That would be tough at .889 through 25% of the season (and perhaps more than 25% if Vladar gets more starts than he has)

If he's at say 30% of his starts and he runs out his career average the rest of the way he finishes at .904

I like his chances of getting into that .900 to .905 range by the end of the year. If he does he provides his career average goaltending for the team's final 61 games

Yeah, I meant as a finish. That's also kind of my point, that even if Markstorm plays like his average self the rest of the way this will be a terrible season for him. At least in my eyes .905 would make Markstrom one of the worst starting goalies this season.

I hope Markstrom finds his game and gets a couple of shutouts to bump up his numbers, but that doesn't seem likely with the way we have been playing D this season. I know the team's expected goals against are among the top 10 teams, but it seems like we give up a lot of grade A chances against relative to a low quantity of shots.