The Athletic - The Brett Kulak miscalculation

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Its just so insignificant it seems like a ridiculous article...they are painting it like a huge mistake or something.

GM got rid of him and then his team was 2nd overall. Kulak doesn't crack this lineup without major injuries.

Vegas took a UFA that was gonna sign with them anyway instead of Kulak...what a massive mistake for them I guess

I didn't read the whole article but people are absurdly defensive of Treliving. Whether viewed in isolation or part of a pattern, Treliving merits criticism for gifting Kulak to the Canadiens. It was another wasted asset.

As Flash points out, these mid-round picks and wasted salary on contracts for guys with limited roles with little upside accumulate to drag the team down and deplete the prospect pool. We have wasted a significant amount of cap and picks for guys we then paid not to play, or who held down roster spots when cheaper, younger better options could have been playing.

And his response to the Valimaki injury is to double down and do more of the same. Please give me some examples of his veteran depth moves that have been good value for the team. I think the only veteran signings he's made that have been good fits have been Frolik and Hamonic. And even on those, the cost is debatable, and Frolik now looks like he will be moved at below value.

[calumniate]

Nm

[neo45]

I doubt Treliving is actually looking to trade for someone to fill in for Valimaki’s injury. Probably just trying to get a veteran UFA to take league minimum for a spot on an NHL team. I am guessing he doesn’t want to simply gift the spot to Kylington who may be better off with another year of development.

It would be pretty dumb to trade a pick for a defenseman at this point in the summer.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I didn't read the whole article but people are absurdly defensive of Treliving. Whether viewed in isolation or part of a pattern, Treliving merits criticism for gifting Kulak to the Canadiens. It was another wasted asset. .

You can criticize Treliving for other moves (and I have)yet not care much about Brett Kulak.

Monteal wouldn't even take him for free. The entire NHL had a chance to take him as a "gift" 24 hours earlier with no takers, none, zero, zilch. The Habs shipped out unwanted contracts back to the Flames for the exchange, after waivers, refusing to take the gift Brad Treliving offered. Kulak then spent the next month or so in the minors before being recalled and finding his game in Montreal.

Good for him, that happens. It's not something I'm overly worried about.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by dino7c

people pay to read this garbage?

It's worth it for the Haynes articles. Not so much for the other guys tho. But at least you have access to other sports and teams as well.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

It's worth it for the Haynes articles. Not so much for the other guys tho. But at least you have access to other sports and teams as well.

Hayes, Duhatschek and many others.

Kent Wilson though? Not at all. He's a poor writer with predictable advanced stat "opinions".

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

How do you figure this? Taormina and Valiev spent the year in the minors and had 2-way contracts.

Kulak made $900k whether in the NHL or AHL
Taormina made $350k in the AHL
Valiev made $80k in the AHL

Looks like cash savings of $470k to me?

It looks like 110 +350 from cap friendly.

So to me you keep kulak and play kylington in the minors where he makes a minor league salary of 70k.

So the flames ended up paying 450 in the minors and 700 I think for kylington in the majors when they could have kept kulak at 900k in the majors and kylington at 70 in the minors.

I believe that was the selling feature. Montreal was getting out from two expensive minor league contracts for salary they were trying to spend on the major league team anyway.

The flames are already spending assets like the house is on fire. Losing them for basically nothing and then trading more assets to replace them 6 months later is a bad way to run a team.

[UKflames]

I know that it is August and news is slow but this article seems to be dragging splinters from the bottom of the barrell, looking for something to talk about.
Now we have an article on this one 'miscalculation' of a prospect, do we get a balancing article about all of the prospects they cut loose that never made it good in the NHL?

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It looks like 110 +350 from cap friendly.

So to me you keep kulak and play kylington in the minors where he makes a minor league salary of 70k.

So the flames ended up paying 450 in the minors and 700 I think for kylington in the majors when they could have kept kulak at 900k in the majors and kylington at 70 in the minors.

I believe that was the selling feature. Montreal was getting out from two expensive minor league contracts for salary they were trying to spend on the major league team anyway.

The flames are already spending assets like the house is on fire. Losing them for basically nothing and then trading more assets to replace them 6 months later is a bad way to run a team.

At the trade deadline, the Flames traded a 4th round pick for a depth defenceman.

Oh my God! Take the keys away from Treliving, he's out of control!

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Frankly, this article does not get written if Valimaki doesn't tear his ACL. This piece is entirely reactionary, and it's a really self-serving attempt at an 'I told you so' from Kent.

The article gets written regardless of what happened to Valimaki because Kent was all over twitter last week talking about it and suggesting he would be writing an article about it.


Almost every analytics guy has a pet player that they want to tell the world they were right about but the experts missed. Kulak is they guy Kent will be putting on his resume this summer.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Rando

Hayes, Duhatschek and many others.

Kent Wilson though? Not at all. He's a poor writer with predictable advanced stat "opinions".

Slightly veering off topic, but I prefer Duhatschek on the Athletic as opposed to his "insider" radio hits. He's not a real insider. He doesn't break news and his analysis of ongoing hockey is very vanilla and consistently out to lunch. He is a journalist and his strength is cultivating relationships (probably because he doesn't break news and offers vanilla analysis) that allow him to get the background details to spin yarn in a long form that can be quite compelling.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It looks like 110 +350 from cap friendly.

So to me you keep kulak and play kylington in the minors where he makes a minor league salary of 70k.

So the flames ended up paying 450 in the minors and 700 I think for kylington in the majors when they could have kept kulak at 900k in the majors and kylington at 70 in the minors.

I believe that was the selling feature. Montreal was getting out from two expensive minor league contracts for salary they were trying to spend on the major league team anyway.

The flames are already spending assets like the house is on fire. Losing them for basically nothing and then trading more assets to replace them 6 months later is a bad way to run a team.

Not that it's a big difference, but the 110k for Valiev is his new contract for 2019-20. 2018-19 was 80k, per capfriendly.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by Rando

Hayes, Duhatschek and many others.

Kent Wilson though? Not at all. He's a poor writer with predictable advanced stat "opinions".

Definitely true, I tend to avoid his articles, I'll read the other's but I always enjoy Hayne's

[blender]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think Kulak was needed last year.

Then why trade for Fantenberg at the deadline?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by blender

Then why trade for Fantenberg at the deadline?

Because they wanted more depth and Stone was coming off a freak life threatening situation.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by blender

Then why trade for Fantenberg at the deadline?

Because you can't carry playoff depth throughout the entire season.

It's why a guy like Frolik potential could be worth more then than now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blender

Then why trade for Fantenberg at the deadline?

If you keep Kulak, you play Kulak (and not, say, Valimaki or Kylington). Since they had those guys they didn't need Kulak all season. The corresponding player for Fantenberg was Stone, who was still a huge question mark.

It's really not that unusual to add extra players when you are planning on a deep PO run (yeah I know how it turned out).

[dustygoon]

I can't read Kent Wilson's stuff. What is he saying exactly......Treliving should have kept him because he was a cheap out of the money option? Essentially you get what you see which wasn't bad PLUS almost free upside?

I guess that is true but the problem is if he signed him 1) you keep him on the big club and he takes a spot from another guy you like more or 2) you play the waiver game and lose him on waivers for nothing if someone else sees the upside option value. So he got a little something for him instead.

[Enoch Root]

People are lamenting the loss of Kulak now?

He cleared waivers. For a reason.

He was, at the time, in the way of, and had far less upside than, Valimaki, Andersson and Kylington. If he has done well in Montreal, that's great - I am happy for him.

Would I trade any of Valimaki, Andersson or Kylington for him now? Definitely not.

So who gives a flying ####?

And for anyone that says 'wasted asset', again, he cleared waivers. And yes, regardless of motivation, or any imagined disagreement, Treliving still did him a solid by moving him.

There is zero story here. But of course, the usual arms up in the air.

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

I didn't read the whole article but people are absurdly defensive of Treliving. Whether viewed in isolation or part of a pattern, Treliving merits criticism for gifting Kulak to the Canadiens. It was another wasted asset.

As Flash points out, these mid-round picks and wasted salary on contracts for guys with limited roles with little upside accumulate to drag the team down and deplete the prospect pool. We have wasted a significant amount of cap and picks for guys we then paid not to play, or who held down roster spots when cheaper, younger better options could have been playing.

And his response to the Valimaki injury is to double down and do more of the same. Please give me some examples of his veteran depth moves that have been good value for the team. I think the only veteran signings he's made that have been good fits have been Frolik and Hamonic. And even on those, the cost is debatable, and Frolik now looks like he will be moved at below value.

I’m in this camp. I think Treliving has done some good work and some bad work. I think this falls into the bad work bucket.

I recall thinking Treliving was making an example of Kulak by putting him on waivers in advance of the arb meeting. Why did he do that? It certainly ensured Kulak would never return much in a trade. I think Treliving went hard on this relationship and in the end did not maximize asset value.

I also agree that in terms of the current roster this move was meh and not relevant.