Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1638945664817045523

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by woob

Coming from someone who voted Liberal, Conservative, Liberal (and fully accept that the Liberals are borking it) I wouldn't at all be surprised if Liberals won again. I also wouldn't be surpised if Trudeau is not at the helm when that election occurs.

I've been eligible to vote since 2003 and federally I voted CPC right up until 2015 (with the exception of 2004, voted LPC). In 2015, I voted LPC again.

My vote is available for the taking, and -- using TheIronMaiden's numbers -- I just don't understand why the CPC are hell-bent on chasing down the sub-5% of mindless convoy idiot-type voters and not appealing to the much larger slice of the LPC's pie they could take by abandoning their socially conservative positions which everyone and their dog knows are deeply unpopular with the majority of voters. It shouldn't be this hard to win against the LPC with their track record, but the CPC picks the worst people and the worst policies to chase ... what, the people who voted for Max Bernier?

I know this horse has been beaten endlessly, but I still say the worst move the CPC did was hang Peter Mackay out to dry when he (rightfully) pointed out that Andrew Scheer's social conservatism was an albatross around the neck of the party.

Originally Posted by Global News

Conservative leadership candidate Peter MacKay says he regrets how some people interpreted his comment that current leader Andrew Scheer’s socially conservatives values were a “stinking albatross.”

MacKay made the remark after the last federal election in referring to how Scheer was dogged during the campaign by questions about same-sex marriage and abortion.

...

He said if Conservatives want to return to government, they’ve got to be honest with themselves and be more forward-looking.

MacKay says he believes he represents the values of conservatives in Alberta and Saskatchewan and is offering a more moderate centrist message than Scheer.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6640700/p...tross-comment/

He was right, the problem with the CPC was so blatantly obvious. So they picked Erin O'Toole who seemed to change his opinion every other time he was asked for it. Then when they were given a second chance with Charest, they pick PP instead who is even less likeable.

[The Yen Man]

I've been a Con voter for most of my voting life, and even I find it hard to stomach PP and the CP this time around. I just can't stand how extreme they are leaning now, and the whole supporting truck convoy thing has really rubbed me the wrong way.

Not gonna lie, if the Liberals actually take the initiative to clean house and get rid of Trudeau by the time next election comes around, I may be inclined to vote Liberals. That's how far the Cons have lost me at this point. It's like they keep getting more and more socially regressive.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Angry Beard was a excellent parliamentarian. He also had the luxury of always being able to be on the attack.
Would've been interesting to see him defend his govt had he and the party been in a position to do so. Incredibly smart man.
Layton must be spinning in his grave at the current state of the federal NDP.

I don't think that Layton was all that enamored with Tom.

Tom was a lot closer to the center in terms of his economic policies, you look at his election platform and it was actually a decent platform for someone like me to be interested in.

But the rest of the NDP didn't like it and pretty much et brutus'd him.

The other thing that I liked about Tom, is he was a straight forward communicator, and seemed to have a high level of integrity around how the government should deal with the public.

He was a bit of a throwback so to speak.

[Street Pharmacist]

For a Climate Change voter, the next election will be difficult. Hard to pinch your nose with this level of nonsense, but unless the NDP figures out a transition plan that is manageable and realistic, or the CPC actually brings one that does something, I'm left without anyone to vote for

[CaptainCrunch]

House and the opposition parties want to force a vote on a public inquiry.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/han...ium%3Dsharebar

MPs will be voting later today in the House of Commons about whether to endorse a report calling for a public inquiry into foreign interference, a move that comes amid new allegations involving the Chinese government's interference in Canada's affairs.
While the motion is not binding, it will likely raise the heat on the federal government to commit to an independent probe of foreign interference, following Toronto-area MP Han Dong's shocking departure from the Liberal caucus.

The NDP motion calls for the government to endorse a report from the procedure and House affairs committee calling for the government to "launch a national public inquiry into allegations of foreign interference in Canada's democratic system."
It goes on to say that the inquiry:

• Be granted all the necessary powers to call witnesses from the government and from political parties.
• Be able to investigate abuse of diaspora groups by hostile foreign governments.
• Have the power to order and review all documents it deems necessary for this work, including documents related to national security.
• And that it does not impede or stop the committee's study on foreign election interference, including the production of documents and the calling of witnesses.

While this will increase pressure on Trudeau, there's no way he will want to allow this to leave a committee where he has control over all aspects and can limit things like how long a person can be questioned, who can be called and how long they can be questioned.

Even then there is going to be suspicion of anyone who would be appointed to run a public inquiry in terms of links to Justin, the LPC or anything else.

I almost expect that we're going to get the budget, the Liberals will heavily bribe the NDP to pass it, then Trudeau will go to the GG and prorogue parliment for as long as he can, which will kill any committees.

FYI the performance by Joly in the Foreign affairs committee investigating the Afghan evacuation was not that inspiring.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

For a Climate Change voter, the next election will be difficult. Hard to pinch your nose with this level of nonsense, but unless the NDP figures out a transition plan that is manageable and realistic, or the CPC actually brings one that does something, I'm left without anyone to vote for

Its not like the Liberal climate change plan shouldn't be put under a microscope either, its been a pretty big failure in terms of any reduction of gases, or strides forwards.

Right now I'd say none of the parties have any idea whatsoever on the Environment file.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I haven't been following this closely but have the allegations against Dong been proven? If so, he needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and Trudeau should resign. If not, I think we need to let the dust settle a little before we bring out all the torches and pitchforks.

Not proven, two leakers told Sam Cooper the allegations. Cooper did not listen to a recording nor review any documents.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1638882985163235328

Yoho, when did you start beating your wife?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Not proven, two leakers told Sam Cooper the allegations. Cooper did not listen to a recording nor review any documents.

OK, and that's fair, but again this is a reputable media outlet. At what point do we stop attacking the media when they report these things? We saw the same thing in Alberta with the emails about the Coutts blockade where media investigates, files a report and people question the professionalism of the press. I don't think that is very healthy for a democracy.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

OK, and that's fair, but again this is a reputable media outlet. At what point do we stop attacking the media when they report these things? We saw the same thing in Alberta with the emails about the Coutts blockade where media investigates, files a report and people question the professionalism of the press. I don't think that is very healthy for a democracy.

People seem to forget the amount of serious legal vetting that happens with the news company before these stories are released. They just don't release them for fun because the liability would be huge.

The accused as an absolute right to file suit if they want to face their accusers. If Dong wants to really clear his name he'd be filing suit today.

There is no right to face your accuser in a press release, nor any obligation at all for the press to endanger their source by releasing it.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Yoho, when did you start beating your wife?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

People seem to forget the amount of serious legal vetting that happens with the news company before these stories are released. They just don't release them for fun because the liability would be huge.

The accused as an absolute right to file suit if they want to face their accusers. If Dong wants to really clear his name he'd be filing suit today.

There is no right to face your accuser in a press release, nor any obligation at all for the press to endanger their source by releasing it.

You don't know his situation, and you don't know the nuance behind this situation for all parties involved. Maybe Dong is talking with his lawyers? Maybe Dong is complying with CSIS instructions? Maybe the political mechanisms to process this sort of interference work slow?

You projecting what should happen isn't the same as what's actually going to happen.

This is no better than people tying someone up to the stake with pitchforks and trying to set witches on fire with no proof.

There's enough political pressure for a response from the Libs, CSIS, RCMP, the House, and the media. Just be patient.

[Azure]

Surely the Liberals have to know that if they'd turf Trudeau and brought in someone new, they will very, very likely win the election?

Also turf anyone that was involved in any of this.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Azure

Surely the Liberals have to know that if they'd turf Trudeau and brought in someone new, they will very, very likely win the election?

Also turf anyone that was involved in any of this.

Yep they turf Trudeau and promote Freeland and they'll win.

And Canada continues to lose.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

People seem to forget the amount of serious legal vetting that happens with the news company before these stories are released. They just don't release them for fun because the liability would be huge.

The accused as an absolute right to file suit if they want to face their accusers. If Dong wants to really clear his name he'd be filing suit today.

There is no right to face your accuser in a press release, nor any obligation at all for the press to endanger their source by releasing it.

Just ask Maher Arar, that was the last time (that I can remember) that CSIS and national security types were leaking like this.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yep they turf Trudeau and promote Freeland and they'll win.

And Canada continues to lose.

It can't be anyone from within Trudeau's circle. They are all tainted.

Mark Carney would win if he ran for the leadership vote.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Are you seriously more upset that CSIS didn’t whistleblow earlier than you are about Dong committing the crime to begin with?

Upset isn’t the right word but I’m definitely more concerned that the checks and balances that are supposed to protect us from these types of things are clearly failing. So yes I’m much more concerned that knowing full well politicians are potentially corruptible we don’t appear to have the necessary safeguards to deal with them when they are corrupt when most people probably thought that we did previously.

If people want to call that a deflection or act as though thinking that way ignores the severity of the allegations they can fill their boots. None of my comments have been meant to be taken as excusing what happened at all. I think that anyone found guilty of wrongdoing should be held accountable to the fullest extent possible.

Basically my thoughts are that if this happened once it can happen again. While people naturally want accountability for those who did wrong, which I don’t disagree with, I think the more pressing issue should be how do we avoid having this happen again.

When we have another election other countries will now know that there are some significant holes in our system that allow for interference to go unchecked and whether it be through legislation or other means of increasing transparency we need to make it a priority to put a stop to this now and removing hurdles that prevent the public from knowing about it sooner instead of making this a partisan issue otherwise foreign interference will only get worse.

I really don’t understand why some consider that to be so controversial.

[Northendzone]

with respect to the Yoho/Brian Lilley twitter video clip - i am a little surprsied that Trudeau did not respond to the when and what were you told question with an answer that noted the following:

1. they had Canadians backs during the pandemic
2. they have lifted 2.7 million Canadians out of poverty and created millions of jobs in sectors across the country
3. how they continue to lead the charge against islamophobia and racism against other cultures
4. protect public "free" health care from being gutted by those nasty premiers
5. how they are poised to once agian deliver a budget that makes life more affordable to for middle income Canadians and create good sustainable jobs in a clean economy

And then went on to talk about flat earth and partisan gamesmanship

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

with respect to the Yoho/Brian Lilley twitter video clip - i am a little surprsied that Trudeau did not mention that:

1. they had Canadians backs during the pandemic
2. they have lifted 2.7 million Canadians out of poverty and created millions of jobs in sectors across the country
3. how they continue to lead the charge against islamophobia and racism against other cultures
4. protect public "free" health care from being gutted by those nasty premiers
5. how they are poised to once agian deliver a budget that makes life more affordable to for middle income Canadians and create good sustainable jobs in a clean economy

You forgot "And those working hard to join them".