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Old 05-20-2018, 09:06 AM   #1101
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In the case of politics in the U.S. I often think that issues of racial identity are used to divide the lower and lower-middle class, to prevent them from voting on what are actually common issues. It's a very emotionally charged and divisive issue. That's not to say that issues of racial and ethnic discrimination aren't true, cause they are, but the emphasis placed on them deflects from the common issues faced by classes that keep all members of various races from effectively exercising their political will.

It's more than that. It's about power. Obama got 95% of the black vote. A bit less with Hillary. The democrats have hitched their horse to the identity politics bandwagon.



If blacks start to believe that the system is working (especially under Trump) than that number will go down. This is why Kanye West is getting bashed by the left for simply saying Candace Owens makes some good points.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:12 AM   #1102
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If blacks start to believe that the system is working (especially under Trump) than that number will go down. This is why Kanye West is getting bashed by the left for simply saying Candace Owens makes some good points.
Actually people have been saying Kanye was trash and had brain problems since Life Of Pablo limped it's way onto the charts and let out a massive wet fart.

It's only now because he publicly fellated Trump that gammons are acknowledging he exists.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:17 AM   #1103
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Isn't the whole point of tenure to protect professors from just that kind of pressure? How many statements do you think MIT would have released about Noam Chomsky if they took the approach you're advocating the U of T take with Peterson?
Since you frame it that way, yes, I am definitely wrong in my comments and will change my position accordingly.

I guess this may be why there is a movement afoot to remove tenure, or no longer offer it in the future. I can see where some would consider that a potential silencing mechanism, but I see it more of a way to rid the institution of non-performers or those who do harm to the institution or its reputation.

BTW, just finished watching the Munk debate. Very entertaining, so thanks for posting the link. I thought Fry and Dyson were excellent. Goldberg was out of her element, but scored some good points. Peterson didn't do any justice to his side of the argument. I thought he came off as the angry white man Dyson described, and he got side tracked by that comment and never got back on course. Fry scored the only points for his side, and I think it was because he knows the left so well, and could speak to or exploit their weaknesses, as he suggested.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:17 AM   #1104
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Actually people have been saying Kanye was trash and had brain problems since Life Of Pablo limped it's way onto the charts and let out a massive wet fart.

It's only now because he publicly fellated Trump that gammons are acknowledging he exists.

ya right, hes got 29 million twitter followers. If he was a liberal, Wendy Williams and Whoppi Goldberg would be praising his views all over America. But now it all has to be outrage.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:20 AM   #1105
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ya right, hes got 29 million twitter followers. If he was a liberal, Wendy Williams and Whoppi Goldberg would be praising his views all over America. But now it all has to be outrage.
Naw man, Kanye has been out of the media cycle for like, 2 or 3 weeks now. He won't be back in til his new album drops in a couple weeks and possibly out even faster if it's lousy like his last one, though the Kid Cudi collab that comes out the week after has some promise.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:25 AM   #1106
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No action is taken to preclude female students from enrolling in STEM programs. And yet that disparity is considered a big problem that requires intervention.
A recruiting effort to up enrollment numbers is an intervention? You know these efforts go on all the time? Do you hold the same view of schools trying to attract more men into nursing programs?

NSFW!
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:28 AM   #1107
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If blacks start to believe that the system is working (especially under Trump) than that number will go down. This is why Kanye West is getting bashed by the left for simply saying Candace Owens makes some good points.
No, itís not.
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:31 AM   #1108
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Come on Cliff, they aren't the same thing. Not even close. One is a recruiting effort to attract more diversity in a program and industry while the other is a complete failure by a segment to even apply. I would agree with you if male students were being rejected in favor of female students, but that isn't happening. If demand for a class is such, extra sections will be added. I'm not sure what it is like in Canada, but in the States colleges/universities are not turning away business in any shape or form. What is happening is males are just not enrolling to attend school. Recruiting efforts are happening, and both genders are being offered opportunity, it's just the females are following through and males are not. No action is taken by the school to preclude a male student, the males are doing it themselves by not even enrolling.
So for years when Engineering Enrolement was roughly 10% female was that a failure of women to apply. Female students were not being rejected to have more male students. They simply didn't and still don't apply at the same rates that make students do. Yet there are programs run by the colleges to encourage female enrolement in engineering.

Yet in nursing it has been even more rare for males to enroll. Male students were not being rejected to have more female students. They simply didn't and still don't apply at the same rates that female students do. Yet there are No programs run by the colleges to encourage male enrolement in nursing.

This problem will eventually reveal itself in the lagging data. And this isn't to say programs shouldnt encourage women to go into STEM fields at higher rates. It's that boys face different challanges in navigating the education system and it should looked at how to improve these outcomes.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:10 AM   #1109
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So for years when Engineering Enrolement was roughly 10% female was that a failure of women to apply. Female students were not being rejected to have more male students. They simply didn't and still don't apply at the same rates that make students do. Yet there are programs run by the colleges to encourage female enrolement in engineering.

Yet in nursing it has been even more rare for males to enroll. Male students were not being rejected to have more female students. They simply didn't and still don't apply at the same rates that female students do. Yet there are No programs run by the colleges to encourage male enrolement in nursing.

This problem will eventually reveal itself in the lagging data. And this isn't to say programs shouldnt encourage women to go into STEM fields at higher rates. It's that boys face different challanges in navigating the education system and it should looked at how to improve these outcomes.
Yes, there are programs to encourage men to enroll in nursing. I posted one of the posters for one of the programs two posts above yours.

Failure to enroll is on the student, not on the system. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If you hand an application to a man and a woman, and only the woman bothers to fill out the paperwork, is it not the man's fault for him not being accepted? Or are you suggesting that women are better at filling out paperwork and the institutions need to make is easier for men to enroll?

I'm also curious about these "challenges" men have in navigating the education system, and then what outcomes you are talking about? Can you expand on this?
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:25 AM   #1110
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Yes, there are programs to encourage men to enroll in nursing. I posted one of the posters for one of the programs two posts above yours.

Failure to enroll is on the student, not on the system. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If you hand an application to a man and a woman, and only the woman bothers to fill out the paperwork, is it not the man's fault for him not being accepted? Or are you suggesting that women are better at filling out paperwork and the institutions need to make is easier for men to enroll?

I'm also curious about these "challenges" men have in navigating the education system, and then what outcomes you are talking about? Can you expand on this?
Higher rates of suicide
Lower grades
Higher rates of medication
Lower post secondary enrolement

All items previously identified by other posters.

It's odd that you think failure to enroll is on the MALE student only. Why do you believe that we are handing both the Male and Felamle student with the same level of encouragement and preparedness. You are making a false equality of opportunity argument without accounting for underlying factors that limit or enhance the opportunity. It is just as foolish to believe that the differing post secondary enrolement between men and women is a choice as it is to believe that the lost employment opportunities driven by child rearing bring disproportionately born by women is a choice.

Structural factors in our society which create these differences in opportunity need to be reviewed and addressed.

As for the nurse add it's the exception that proves the rule and the reaction to it is entertaining. Compare it to the encouraging enrolement in engineering programs that have done on for about 40 years at least in Canada. These programs being led by the professional associations and universities.

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Old 05-20-2018, 10:39 AM   #1111
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Is boing boing actually a humour outlet or is this another example of earnest journalism getting punked by the internet?

https://boingboing.net/2018/05/19/sl...es-of-gor.html
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:13 PM   #1112
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Okay, that was funny.
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:32 PM   #1113
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Actually people have been saying Kanye was trash and had brain problems since Life Of Pablo limped it's way onto the charts and let out a massive wet fart.

It's only now because he publicly fellated Trump that gammons are acknowledging he exists.
Been clamouring to find a way to work in that one for the last few days I bet.

Psycnet found something a little obscure on the internet recently everyone.
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:34 PM   #1114
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So for years when Engineering Enrolement was roughly 10% female was that a failure of women to apply. Female students were not being rejected to have more male students. They simply didn't and still don't apply at the same rates that make students do. Yet there are programs run by the colleges to encourage female enrolement in engineering.

Yet in nursing it has been even more rare for males to enroll. Male students were not being rejected to have more female students. They simply didn't and still don't apply at the same rates that female students do. Yet there are No programs run by the colleges to encourage male enrolement in nursing.

This problem will eventually reveal itself in the lagging data. And this isn't to say programs shouldnt encourage women to go into STEM fields at higher rates. It's that boys face different challanges in navigating the education system and it should looked at how to improve these outcomes.


From 2010:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle1319477/

Absolutely there's tonnes of economic incentive for men to cross the aisle and become represented in female dominated careers. That 1 scholarship proves it.


Places like Oxford should be lauded for extending time for Female students to complete their exams:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...omens-benefit/


I mean, it shouldn't be surprising that NY Times would post articles that would excoriate and defame Jordan Peterson, who would dare to question their #metoo movement since they paid money for advertisement that should garner them clicks. http://thehill.com/homenews/media/36...-during-golden


Spoiler!



And he's not alone, I mean look at other professors who would deign to question the current iteration of feminism, Janice Fiamengo (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...public-library) who was also dragged before the Ontario human rights tribunal.

Spoiler!


This only tangentially relates to Peterson, if only for the whole right vs left arguments going on.


And why post secondary ivory towers anyways? Let's have this person talk about it:

NSFW!
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:58 PM   #1115
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ya right, hes got 29 million twitter followers. If he was a liberal, Wendy Williams and Whoppi Goldberg would be praising his views all over America. But now it all has to be outrage.
Kanye is getting ripped on because he was saying ignorant and ahistorical tripe.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:00 AM   #1116
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I think one of the more fascinating aspects of Peterson is that he's somewhat proving his own point with regards to free speech. The larger the platform he's given and the more light that's shed on him and some of his ideas, the more they're being torn apart and mocked for the outdated tripe that they are. His cultists will still defend him to the death, but that's really no different than people who follow any prominent charlatan (Trump, Chopra, David Avocado Wolfe, etc.).
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:38 AM   #1117
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Yes, there are programs to encourage men to enroll in nursing. I posted one of the posters for one of the programs two posts above yours.

Failure to enroll is on the student, not on the system. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. If you hand an application to a man and a woman, and only the woman bothers to fill out the paperwork, is it not the man's fault for him not being accepted? Or are you suggesting that women are better at filling out paperwork and the institutions need to make is easier for men to enroll?

I'm also curious about these "challenges" men have in navigating the education system, and then what outcomes you are talking about? Can you expand on this?
But this only applies to males, right? Because the lack of women in STEM industries is clearly because the system is structured in such a way that we discourage women from actually TRYING to enroll into STEM classes, and therefore the system needs to be changed. But when it comes to males, the system is fine.

Do you even read your own hypocritical comments?

Some of the comments you have posted in the last few pages, especially those talking about forcing Peterson to 'shut up' are pretty much fascist. You are trying to use his being part of a faculty to limit his freedom of speech.

Scary world you live in.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:12 AM   #1118
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I believe itís fairly obvious that New Era was suggesting Peterson would be ďshut upĒ through getting trounced intellectually by his peers, being that one would assume there are enough intellectuals at the UofT that could point out the errors (especially when he speaks far out of his wheelhouse).

Thatís not fascism. The fact that you call it fascism is ridiculous.

And your hypocrite comment doesnít land either. New Eraís point is that men are encouraged into these roles, but do not take them, and that is on the individual men. Women, up until recently, werenít even encourage to take this roles. Itís not on them if they arenít being encouraged, or worse, are being discouraged to take certain roles. But when there is an active push to entice a population into a certain career path or role, and itís still not happening, then itís fair to assume thatís more on the population than society.

Seems basic to me. Where did you lose that part of it?

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Old 05-21-2018, 11:40 AM   #1119
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And your hypocrite comment doesnít land either. New Eraís point is that men are encouraged into these roles, but do not take them, and that is on the individual men. Women, up until recently, werenít even encourage to take this roles. Itís not on them if they arenít being encouraged, or worse, are being discouraged to take certain roles.
Only if 'by recently' you mean the last 30 years. Because you'd have to go back at least that far to find the 'girls can't do math' stuff peddled in schools.

And for the longest time women were not encouraged to go into law, medicine, or accounting. Today, half or more of the graduates of those programs are women. I don't recall any great public calls or initiative to encourage young women to enter those fields. They just said 'screw it, I'm going to be a doctor/lawyer/accountant.'

So are we to believe STEM fields are simply far, far more misogynistic than law, medicine, and accounting are?
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:17 PM   #1120
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So are we to believe STEM fields are simply far, far more misogynistic than law, medicine, and accounting are?
Kind of seems that whenever there's some kind of controversy involving misogyny, sexism, rape chants, etc., on campus, it's generally not the liberal arts, law, and social sciences faculties who are implicated, so you tell me.
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