Driving a slow car fast (e.g. Abarth) VS Driving a fast car slow

[Jimmy Stang]

I rented a Fiat 500 (just the base variety) in England a few years ago. It was a lot of fun to drive, and was perfect zipping around over there. Quick, responsive, handled like a little race car. I'm 6'1, and it was perfectly comfortable for me. Storage space is very limited as you'd expect, but if you're not often transporting people or things around, it could be a fun little car to have. As a rental for a couple of weeks with no wife, kid, or stuff, it was absolutely perfect.

[Pilsner12]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Comparing Mini drivers to Smart drivers? Ironhorse is going to murder you in your sleep

One of those is performance oriented, one is the furthest from it.

I am well aware of the difference between the two cars I was more generalizing the owners of them.

This is not to say that everyone who owns one is like this but I seem to know that they drive said car whether I ask or not.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by pylon

Golf R is a pretty cool car, but for 10k less, just get a GTI and APR tune the snot out of it, and end up with a quicker lighter car. No AWD, but nothing a set of Hakkapeliitta's can't fix.

I would disagree on this. The point of AWD on a Golf R isn't for getting around in the snow like a Honda CRV or something, it's to put the power down in all conditions. Take a GTI and go full throttle in a corner exit and it will make you sad, because you'll just spin one tire and start understeering. Put the throttle down in a Golf R, and at the most your rear will step out a little and put a huge smile on your face as you accelerate out of the corner.

FWD cars with power are very disappointing in that scenario. I drove one for a few years and vowed never again.

Originally Posted by pylon

I cannot comment on that on a public forum, but 'apparently' there are ways around it. I cannot condone it, but I have heard you can get a tune with a mode that de-activates the chip and locks it into stock mode. This is all hear say as I would never condone or recommend such a thing.

If you're talking about the APR chips they can hide your program from a dealer, but for a couple years now VW/Audi Canada has been scanning and collecting data off of the ECUs and can detect any software changes written to them, and all cars that have those changes are now flagged and they are denying warranty based on that flag. It used to be no problem, you could warranty an APR car all day, but it is no longer the case unless they've figured something out very recently to circumvent it.

[Travis Munroe]

Is there a chip for a smart car? Toss it in a car 2 go and you can keep your current car for power and fire up a car 2 go when you want cornering. /sarcasm
I agree with Pylon in the GTI compartment. I test drove a 08 a few years back and if it wasnt for my career/driving people around I would have taken a much closer look at it.
Im also pretty sure that some minor mods with the tune will have it rolling by a boxer both in a straight line and corners.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Focus ST?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by pylon

Considering that was a suck ass version with 115 HP (known in the VW world as the 2 point slow), yeah, it was a garbage car, unless of course it was a VR6, which it obviously wasn't, because those weren't slow.

GTI from 2000 on has been awesome, that's when they dropped the 20V 1.8T in as the standard engine. Those things are gnarly with an APR tune, they actually feel more potent than the current 2.0 once tuned, because they have a lot more lag at the bottom.

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I would disagree on this. The point of AWD on a Golf R isn't for getting around in the snow like a Honda CRV or something, it's to put the power down in all conditions. Take a GTI and go full throttle in a corner exit and it will make you sad, because you'll just spin one tire and start understeering. Put the throttle down in a Golf R, and at the most your rear will step out a little and put a huge smile on your face as you accelerate out of the corner.

FWD cars with power are very disappointing in that scenario. I drove one for a few years and vowed never again.

I can give both perspectives. Hopefully this doesn't stray the conversation too far.

I had a 337/25th GTi w/1.8T (fwd) ~ 200+ hp
I currently have an R32 (awd GTi) with a gt35r ~ 400+awhp

The 337 has a very light engine, and was easily tossable, yet it's loss of traction was felt nearing apex, and it took nimble foot work to find that powerband to pull out of the corner --- when you nailed the exit, super fun -- often though a bit underwhelming.

The awd R32, just sticks. I've really had to push it to kick the ass out a bit, and at that point it's a bit squirrelly & unpredictable. Accelerating out can be an anomoly of course, with the turbo pulling like a freight train --- but what I'm really getting at is the traction. It's very difficult, compared to the FWD GTi, to lose traction in a corner.

I'm quite biased to german cars, but as you've spent a bunch of time in the 300 and the Mustang, you might feel the VW's interior to persuade you in the purchase as well.

Ultimately, the R32 isn't as nimble, when you flick the wrist to dive into a corner, as it's a heavier car, especially up front.
.
Please keep us apprised. I love threads like this.

[WCan_Kid]

I've got a chipped 2.0t jetta with some minor suspension work done, it will definitely hang with the boxster while blowing it's doors off in a straight line. Had an older boxster that a buddy and I have gone head to head in couple of times (in a safe, legal manner of course).
The boxster fits the theme of the thread pretty well, it's not fast but one of the most fun vehicles I've ever driven. The rush of winding out an R8, SRT Viper level car is amazing, but you never get to feel it.
Mini's, 500s, Miatas or old CRX's are a blast all the time.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

If you're talking about the APR chips they can hide your program from a dealer, but for a couple years now VW/Audi Canada has been scanning and collecting data off of the ECUs and can detect any software changes written to them, and all cars that have those changes are now flagged and they are denying warranty based on that flag. It used to be no problem, you could warranty an APR car all day, but it is no longer the case unless they've figured something out very recently to circumvent it.

TD1 status on your warranty only applies to engine internals. They will still warranty everything else on the car. Any tune has it's risks, but there are thousands of tuned cars running around with no problem. A tune on the stock turbo will be fine 99% of the time.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Pilsner12

I am well aware of the difference between the two cars I was more generalizing the owners of them.

This is not to say that everyone who owns one is like this but I seem to know that they drive said car whether I ask or not.

I think you're out to lunch on this. Nine times out of 10, Cooper S owners are enthusiasts. Mini Coopers (not S) are usually owned by chicks that would have bought a VW Bug if not the Mini.

Smart Car owners are people that look at cars like they're nothing more than an appliance. They probably hate driving and definitely hate themselves.

[cory]

I am a little biased but I have a gti (2013) with apr ecu tune (stage 2), and it is probably the funnest car I have ever driven.. The thing hauls ass when needed and with a little suspension work it will be able to corners while hammering on it. And all this still costs less than a golf r.

I had the worries about tuning the car but all the reading I have done basically says Vw has to prove the tune is what caused whatever is wrong with your car. So like if your ecu ####s the bed then obviously you're on the hook but if your water pump goes then it's covered. I tuned my car the day I finished the break in and haven't had an issue. I went stage 2 about 4 months ago and still no problems. And no fiat or mini will keep up to you corners or not... Unless they have tunes I guess haha

[burn_this_city]

Mine is Stage 2 as well, I'm considering the jump to K04 or Stage 3. Sounds like you've been reading up in the same place as me golfmk6.com

[FlamesAddiction]

I miss boxy cars. I don't know why everything has to be a little egg these days, especially for cars that rarely need to go faster than what city traffic will allow.

I loved the Fiats from back in the 1980s.

[theinfinitejar]

Has anybody test driven the Fiesta ST yet? I know Top Gear loved it.

[cory]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Mine is Stage 2 as well, I'm considering the jump to K04 or Stage 3. Sounds like you've been reading up in the same place as me golfmk6.com

Yup there and vwvortex I find the most helpful.. I'm also contemplating doing k04 when there spring sale happens but it's so damn expensive. I would like to find someone in town that has done to see if it is worth it

[shane_c]

I used to have a 96 Mustang GT with quite a few modifications on it, including some suspension work. It was a lot of fun! Since then I've had a few uninspiring cars but if I was in the market I don't think I'd go the Mustang route again.

Right now I drive a 07 Forester which gets me around and is amazing in the winter. I often think that it'd be nice to have a fun car too but the budget doesn't allow it. When my Forester gets run into the ground I'm thinking of going with a WRX hatch. That way I'll have a quick car, will be able to drive it in the winter and still have the practicality of a hatch. I haven't driven one so I'm not sure what they handle like, but assuming it's pretty good.

I do really like the looks of the VW GTI but my 2000 Jetta still leaves a sour taste in my mouth, even after all these years.

[polak]

How about fast car fast?

My requirements for a car:

- AWD
- +250 hp
- Manual transmission

Affordable cars that fall into this category are rare however. Wrx is about it today and they are more plastic than fisher price cars. There used to be the speed 6 (current car) and the legacy GT spec b....

Looks like if they don't improve the wrx interior when the new generation comes out next year ill probably have to drop the awd requirement. Ill look at the Genesis Coupe or Mustang then....

[cory]

Golf r, or go into a used Audi a4 same engine as gti and then chip it you got yourself 250 awd and they come in standard. or even an s4

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by cory

Yup there and vwvortex I find the most helpful.. I'm also contemplating doing k04 when there spring sale happens but it's so damn expensive. I would like to find someone in town that has done to see if it is worth it

Same, although I think if I got a taste for it I would definitely do the upgrade.

[polak]

Originally Posted by cory

Golf r, or go into a used Audi a4 same engine as gti and then chip it you got yourself 250 awd and they come in standard. or even an s4

After modding my speed 6 into the ground im done with modifying cars unless its factory warranty protected i.e. Dynan or Alpina.

The golf R is DSG unfortunately. I'd rather sacrafice AWD then that clutch pedal

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by polak

The golf R is DSG unfortunately. I'd rather sacrafice AWD then that clutch pedal

The Golf R was only offered in manual for the MK VI.

I don't think it's officially been announced yet what the transmission choices will be for the MK VII, although the S3 is DSG only, so that may be a sign.