[PGT] Hawks 5 Flames 1

[AlbertaFan]

Originally Posted by playmaker

And we won couple of meaningless games in 2013 only to draft Monahan instead of MacKinnon. Those type of mistakes may decide the fate of a franchise.

It’s a mistake to win hockey games now, got it.

That’s crazy. Even the year the Oilers won the McDavid lottery, they weren’t last overall. It’s all chance man, the draft lotto can be cruel. Play the best you can and see where the balls end up. Buffalo tanked hard that year and they lost.

[Manhattanboy]

Flames had no offensive push in the third. Ya they put up 7 shots quickly to start but they were the usual low percentage muffins. I could have played goal for Chicago tonight and the last time I had goal pads on was junior high.

No creativity among the forwards at all. No high danger chances in the third.

I can’t believe this is how they are coached. The system cannot have changed that much in a year despite the loss of 13 and 19.

Someone suggested the performance by the supporting cast last year was an anomaly. That seems right.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by AlbertaFan

It’s a mistake to win hockey games now, got it.

I still remember when there were people on here losing their #### the Covid year because the Flames were trying to win games while 6 points back of Montreal. Not 16, not 26. 3 wins and 3 Montreal losses.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by getoverit

Brutal. They didn’t get the memo that the break is next week.

I’m not sure who needs it more, them or us.

[Goriders]

The Flames certainly don’t like to do themselves any favours.

They are a hard team to watch. They must use 25% more energy to score the same amount of goals as other teams. Their style of play looks similar to watching someone bang their head against a wall.

They would be a hard team to coach. It would drive you crazy.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Tuco

2-3 year window. Make the playoffs and anything can happen. Hopefully Patrick Kane is a Flame soon.

when you make the 2nd last place hawks look like defensive stalwarts and the 7th string goalie unstoppable you're not in the realm of anything can happen

everything right can happen but this group without serious work and re-strategizing on its offense and powerplay and a healthy blue line is only going as far as a lengthy single round, maybe two. At best

they need to harness a level of skill that they just may not possess on that bench

and the compete needed to compensate for that is just not there consistently enough

I think Darryl needs to do a lot of work on this group yet

they're missing assignments everywhere and don't look organized, even with effort put in

I don't see the structure .. it is odd

they seemed super in-sync last season .. I don't know why a couple changes makes that go out the window

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by CGY12

My opinion on the team this year;

- Lindholm is not a #1 centre on a cup contending team

- Markstrom is on a massive decline (in general not tonight)

- Hanifin although a good player is overrated

- The forward group lacks speed

- The d core which looks amazing on paper is exactly like Flames of past, great on paper and underwhelming on the ice

- Sutter for an experienced coach, looks lost with turnover of core players

Lindholm is a fine #1C with elite wingers flanking him

different story when it's a 2nd liner and a 3rd liner

given this fact, I really think huby-lindholm/kadri-lindholm/kadri should be given a look

stacking talent elevated last years team from 2021

it's not popular because we worked to bolster the center depth, but this team isn't skilled enough to run lines with the talent spread out like it is. you end up with 4 lines, none of which can carry the load offensively, but just click from time to time

[gilligans_off]

Our 4th line was dog shirt

Our “vets” seem to cost us more games than anything. Look more like beer league players than anything, from the net out. Old school thought process needs to go. Ride the kids. At least it might be entertaining

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Lindholm doesn't have much to work with.

Dube is basically Kobasew. Toffoli has been good but it's not like he's driving plays.

Number 1 centres are supposed to be the ones who drive the play for the wingers. Guys like Gaudreau, Kane, Kucherov, etc, are pretty rare in terms of being so good that they can control the game from the wing. I like Lindholm, very good player, but we aren't winning a cup with him as our #1. He is a great 2nd line centre. Problem with the Flames is they have 2 great 2nd line centres and a great 3rd line centre, but to be a legit cup contender you need that #1, not only in terms of production but in terms of the skill set required to dictate pace and zone entry when on the ice.

[N-E-B]

One thing I think that killed them tonight is having a Stone-Mackey pairing. Mackey isn’t an NHL defenseman and Stone is a #7 guy. If you’re playing both of them you’re going to need your other 4 guys to step up and make some huge plays. Unfortunately both Weegar and Hanifin had brutal brain farts that led to a goal against. Their defense was atrocious tonight. If it weren’t for Markstrom (who wasn’t perfect himself but I won’t fault for tonight) this game would have been 7 or 8 to 1.

I’m also starting to wonder about Sutter. I get the impression he’s ticked a lot of guys off this year and might not have control of the room. He’s always been a coach with a shelf life, I wonder if we’ve reached his expiry date. I’m a big fan of Daryl, but I’m starting to think it might be best for the team if we moved on. He was exactly what the team needed in 2021 when we brought him in but I’m not sure he’s what this group needs now. I get the sense there’s a power struggle going on. There’s plenty of good players and leaders on the team, why hasn’t he named a captain? Why is he embarrassing his players in the media (Pelletier comments, Huberdeau pooping)? It just comes off as him big-dogging the new guys for God knows what reason.

Something is rotten with this team. I get that Tanev is a big part of their blue line but to only have 1 win in 9 games without him? Come on.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Number 1 centres are supposed to be the ones who drive the play for the wingers. Guys like Gaudreau, Kane, Kucherov, etc, are pretty rare in terms of being so good that they can control the game from the wing. I like Lindholm, very good player, but we aren't winning a cup with him as our #1. He is a great 2nd line centre. Problem with the Flames is they have 2 great 2nd line centres and a great 3rd line centre, but to be a legit cup contender you need that #1, not only in terms of production but in terms of the skill set required to dictate pace and zone entry when on the ice.

technically three good 2nd line centers

Backlund has been a beast (outside of tonight)

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Lindholm is a fine #1C with elite wingers flanking him

different story when it's a 2nd liner and a 3rd liner

given this fact, I really think huby-lindholm/kadri-lindholm/kadri should be given a look

stacking talent elevated last years team from 2021

it's not populat because we worked to bolster the center depth, but thos team isn't skilled enough to run lines with the talent spread out like it is. you end up with 4 lines that can't carry the load offensively, but just click from time to time

To win a cup or be a legit playoff contender? I would argue otherwise. We've seen it the last couple years. Like I said its not just about production when you are the #1 centre, its about being able to control the flow of the game. Obviously not a lot of players have it but I think its vital if you want to legitimately contend.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

technically three good 2nd line centers

Backlund has been a beast (outside of tonight)

Because he's slotted in right where he needs to be, 3rd line.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by CGY12

To win a cup or be a legit playoff contender? I would argue otherwise. We've seen it the last couple years. Like I said its not just about production when you are the #1 centre, its about being able to control the flow of the game. Obviously not a lot of players have it but I think its vital if you want to legitimately contend.

I think a team could be a WC finalist in this underwhelming western conference with lindholm as the 1C. just needs to have the right wingers

he was outstanding last season

but no, he's not your traditional puck carrying C that drives the play consistently. still a special player that when engaged does every area of the game well

sadly a jack of all trades player isn't what this particular group needs centering it's top line to have success

with Johnny next to him we could get away with lindy just being who he is. not so much with the guys he has now

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by jar_e

This team is woefully unprepared for games. We either say the offence isn’t showing up or the defence is leaving Markstrom out to dry. Eventually this is just the coaches and GMs responsibility. In a perfect world, both are gone in the off season but I have zero faith in that happening. I honestly believe a coaching change could have salvaged this season in early December and at least we could have rode a new coaching bump for the rest of the season and figure it out in the off season.

I’d be shocked if the majority of fans are impressed with Sutter at this point. Don’t know why having an opinion on Sutter’s job security gets the response of being told to shut up.

In a perfect world, we head in to the off season stacked with picks and a tonne of cap space.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Lindholm is a fine #1C with elite wingers flanking him

different story when it's a 2nd liner and a 3rd liner

given this fact, I really think huby-lindholm/kadri-lindholm/kadri should be given a look

stacking talent elevated last years team from 2021

it's not popular because we worked to bolster the center depth, but this team isn't skilled enough to run lines with the talent spread out like it is. you end up with 4 lines, none of which can carry the load offensively, but just click from time to time

#1 centers can carry and control the puck, Lindholm has never been able to do this. he's a good #2C with a great defensive game..that him

Treliving had his chance for a #1C and blew it.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I think a team could be a WC finalist in this underwhelming western conference with lindholm as the 1C. just needs to have the right wingers

he was outstanding last season

but no, he's not your traditional puck carrying C that drives the play consistently. still a special player that when engaged does every area of the game well

sadly a jack of all trades player isn't what this particular group needs centering it's top line to have success

with Johnny next to him we could get away with lindy just being who he is. not so much with the guys he has now

Awesome player for sure. Like you said can be a very good #1 centre with the right wingers for a good team. Like we saw last year though, in the playoffs, not even Gaudreau on his flank made this team a true playoff threat. He doesn't possess the skills needed to be a #1 centre on a championship caliber team in my opinion.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Number 1 centres are supposed to be the ones who drive the play for the wingers. Guys like Gaudreau, Kane, Kucherov, etc, are pretty rare in terms of being so good that they can control the game from the wing. I like Lindholm, very good player, but we aren't winning a cup with him as our #1. He is a great 2nd line centre. Problem with the Flames is they have 2 great 2nd line centres and a great 3rd line centre, but to be a legit cup contender you need that #1, not only in terms of production but in terms of the skill set required to dictate pace and zone entry when on the ice.

I sadly believe this is true and the reason why we will flounder for a few years and then be forced into a rebuild with mega contracts still on the books for years.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Dx54

Wills is annoying

blah blah we're being too hard on player x, that's not fair! player x is a great! he knows he can be better and will! I'll take his word over yours! blah blah

blah blah sure the team lost badly but look *cherry picks stats* based on these extremely narrow parameters they can be contenders for the western conference! When they're right I would pick them over any one! blah blah

blah blah sure Markstrom had a .700, but Markstrom is an elite goalie! He was great, amazing, could not have played better. he got vezina votes guys! People who say the team plays any worse in front of him than vladar are wrong! They're just unlucky! blah blah

blah blah Mike Smith is the best puck handler in the game! blah blah

blah blah Huberdeau? Did I mention he got 115 points in florida? Elias lindholm? Maybe hes invisible lately, but no one does what he does! He got selke votes guys! Not far behind Bergeron! blah blah

Our edmonton-level water carrier. Clearly sold his soul for the gig. They need to keep him away from all analytical discussions of the team (especially coach pressers). He's a Flames colored pale of water

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Number 1 centres are supposed to be the ones who drive the play for the wingers. Guys like Gaudreau, Kane, Kucherov, etc, are pretty rare in terms of being so good that they can control the game from the wing. I like Lindholm, very good player, but we aren't winning a cup with him as our #1. He is a great 2nd line centre. Problem with the Flames is they have 2 great 2nd line centres and a great 3rd line centre, but to be a legit cup contender you need that #1, not only in terms of production but in terms of the skill set required to dictate pace and zone entry when on the ice.

It's irrelevant who drives the play. You can't expect Lindholm to do much with a 2nd and 3rd liner.

The Oilers tried that with McDavid and it didn't work either. We have two glaring holes in our top 6. We aren't going to do anything with Dube on the top line & Lucic on the 2nd.

Looks like Lucic is back on the 4th now we need to figure out the top line.