MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

How so, what's the political motivation? Say what you mean and don't imply.

To put a thumb on the scale with a mind towards generating political outcomes more favorable to the person/group suggesting them, of course.

Why don’t you explain why you think someone born in the US who hasn’t lived there for 20 years should have, not just equal, but MORE voting power than a permanent resident who has actually lived there for the same amount of time? One citizen, one vote, right? Why? And why 18 and not, say, 17, or 16, or whenever you start working?

Then explain why you think New Zealand, which ranks nearly 30 places higher on the democracy matrix than the US (and 16 higher than Canada), and allows permanent residents to vote, is less deserving of being a “bellwether” of democracy than Canada or the US.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well you can vote in the US because you're a US citizen. So...exactly what we're saying here.

And that doesn’t seem absurd to you? It’s absurd to me. I live here. I have more power and impact on how people in the US live than many, many people who actually live there.

And we’re saying we just… shouldn’t question that? Ever? lol

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Kendra Wannamaker of CP lore at 9:23:11!!

I thought she looked familar! I saw this tweet before that video and her reaction to this old guy calling renters "drifters" was perfect.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1782996813609640355

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And that doesn’t seem absurd to you? It’s absurd to me. I live here. I have more power and impact on how people in the US live than many, many people who actually live there.

And we’re saying we just… shouldn’t question that? Ever? lol

Right...but you're a citizen and have tax obligations to the US so you have the right to a vote with that. Permanent residents here don't have the same rights overall, and if they want those rights that come with citizenship they have to make an application. This doesn't seem crazy to me at all.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

Right...but you're a citizen and have tax obligations to the US so you have the right to a vote with that. Permanent residents here don't have the same rights overall, and if they want those rights that come with citizenship they have to make an application. This doesn't seem crazy to me at all.

Well, if the trade-off for getting to vote is tax obligations, then why shouldn’t permanent residents be able to vote?

Keeping in mind, as I already pointed out, they are in fact able to vote in countries that have healthier democracies than those in Canada or the US.

If it doesn’t seem crazy to you that’s fine, but that just means you aren’t really engaging with the question. Which is also fine, but I’ll happy push back on anyone who says the question shouldn’t even be asked.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Well, if the trade-off for getting to vote is tax obligations, then why shouldn’t permanent residents be able to vote?

Keeping in mind, as I already pointed out, they are in fact able to vote in countries that have healthier democracies than those in Canada or the US.

If it doesn’t seem crazy to you that’s fine, but that just means you aren’t really engaging with the question. Which is also fine, but I’ll happy push back on anyone who says the question shouldn’t even be asked.

It's not that I'm not engaging. It's that I think that the rule is there for a good reason. If you want to vote or run for elected office in Canada, become a citizen. That's the bar, and it makes sense to me.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

What % of 80 year olds are still citizens within a decade?

Dead people have rights, too!

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I thought she looked familar! I saw this tweet before that video and her reaction to this old guy calling renters "drifters" was perfect.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1782996813609640355

what an a$$hole

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's not that I'm not engaging. It's that I think that the rule is there for a good reason. If you want to vote or run for elected office in Canada, become a citizen. That's the bar, and it makes sense to me.

Repeating your belief without considering any counter points is absolutely not engaging with the question. Look around the world where the bar is different in healthier democracies and explain why their bar makes less sense than ours.

What’s “the good reason”? And why isn’t it good enough everywhere else?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I thought she looked familar! I saw this tweet before that video and her reaction to this old guy calling renters "drifters" was perfect.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1782996813609640355

Stupid drifters giving the grace of their presence away for free.

[MoneyGuy]

Wrong thread

[Izzle]

I don't know if Councillor Wyness is for or against blanket rezoning but she's schooling this realtor right now.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Repeating your belief without considering any counter points is absolutely not engaging with the question. Look around the world where the bar is different in healthier democracies and explain why their bar makes less sense than ours.

What’s “the good reason”? And why isn’t it good enough everywhere else?

It's not good enough everywhere else though. New Zealand is one country. I think that the EU is a different scenario because those countries have the economic union. Otherwise, Canada doesn't seem to be an outlier here? Most countries have citizenship as a barrier to suffrage.

And, what benefit is there to allowing this? Is is just because people are here and would like to vote?

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Izzle

I don't know if Councillor Wyness is for or against blanket rezoning but she's schooling this realtor right now.

I don't really understand why they repeatedly ask people questions that they clearly don't have the experience/expertise to answer.

[kevman]

I've got a buddy who's lived in Canada for almost 40 years, is a father of 2 Canadian citizens, is married to a Canadian citizen, owns 3 properties, is a Sr. equity partner at a major firm and can't vote because of his permanent resident status.

I bring all that up because by most antiquated metrics, wealth and land ownership, he'd be the perfect candidate to vote.

He's also far more politically engaged than most people I know.

I've never thought about it before but, yeah, why not let PR's vote.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by kevman

I've got a buddy who's lived in Canada for almost 40 years, is a father of 2 Canadian citizens, is married to a Canadian citizen, owns 3 properties, is a Sr. equity partner at a major firm and can't vote because of his permanent resident status.

I bring all that up because by most antiquated metrics, wealth and land ownership, he'd be the perfect candidate to vote.

He's also far more politically engaged than most people I know.

I've never thought about it before but, yeah, why not let PR's vote.

Why doesn’t he just get his citizenship if he wants to vote?

My mother in law is basically the same and I have no problem with her not being able to vote.

[Fuzz]

Be better to allow PR's to vote who actually live here, rather than those who vote UCP and then #### off the the US.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's not good enough everywhere else though. New Zealand is one country. I think that the EU is a different scenario because those countries have the economic union. Otherwise, Canada doesn't seem to be an outlier here? Most countries have citizenship as a barrier to suffrage.

And, what benefit is there to allowing this? Is is just because people are here and would like to vote?

Exactly, this mysterious “good reason” that you won’t explain is not good enough everywhere else, so why is it good enough here?

What benefit is there? I don’t know, it’s democratic, for one. It’s giving people who live here and pay taxes here say in what life here is like, which directly affects them. It engages more people to participate in our democracy.

What benefit is there to letting women vote? or people of different races? or poor people? These are people who couldn’t always vote. Today, depending where you go, some non-citizens can vote and some can’t, some places (in the US) don’t let prisoners vote even if they’re citizens. If non-citizens in the EU can vote, then why is “citizenship” the bar?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Why doesn’t he just get his citizenship if he wants to vote?

My mother in law is basically the same and I have no problem with her not being able to vote.

I’d assume because their country of citizenship doesn’t allow dual, and it would be more of a pain for travel. It’s not uncommon.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Let's all be clear, one citizen over 18 one vote is the bellwether in our democracy for a number of very good reasons. All discussions otherwise are politically motivated to put a thumb on the scale with a mind towards generating political outcomes more favorable to the person/group suggesting them.

What about 16 year olds? 14 year olds? 10 year olds?

What about people incarcerated?

Calgary requires people be resident for 6 months to be eligible to vote in municipal elections.

there are (or have been) several caveats to the idea of democratic eligibility, and some of these are arguments have nothing to do with tipping the scales one way or another.