A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[sureLoss]

The title for the season finale is pretty cool.

Spoilered in case nobody wants to know or read speculation

Spoiler!

"The Dragon and the Wolf"
title points to maybe Jon's heritage being revealed? or Something about to happen with Jon and Dany. Maybe both?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, I agree that the whole Sansa/Arya conflict is completely ridiculous.

I don't get this line of thinking. Arya comes back and finds her sister in power. A sister that's always been a complete opposite of her to the point where there's always been a bit of a sibling rivalry. Arya also saw her father beheaded while her sister stood by the side of the man behind it. I'm pretty sure a lot of siblings would be conflicted seeing that through Arya's eyes and lets not forget that she really knows little of what Sansa really had to go through so from the outside it does look like Sansa chose herself over her family which is a concept hard to understand for a personality like Arya who's willing to fight for her family. In a show where family members have never been shy about killing each other to sit atop the throne, this storyline is very logical.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't get this line of thinking. Arya comes back and finds her sister in power. A sister that's always been a complete opposite of her to the point where there's always been a bit of a sibling rivalry. Arya also saw her father beheaded while her sister stood by the side of the man behind it. I'm pretty sure a lot of siblings would be conflicted seeing that through Arya's eyes and lets not forget that she really knows little of what Sansa really had to go through so from the outside it does look like Sansa chose herself over her family which is a concept hard to understand for a personality like Arya who's willing to fight for her family. In a show where family members have never been shy about killing each other to sit atop the throne, this storyline is very logical.

And at the same time, while Sansa has gone through some awful ####, shes been doing it in Luxury. Always at the side of power while Arya has been fighting for scraps and clinging to anything she can by her fingernails.

I could honestly see some resentment there.

It hasnt been fun or easy for either of them, or Bran for that matter, but its been very difficult in very different ways.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Locke

And at the same time, while Sansa has gone through some awful ####, shes been doing it in Luxury. Always at the side of power while Arya has been fighting for scraps and clinging to anything she can by her fingernails.

I could honestly see some resentment there.

It hasnt been fun or easy for either of them, or Bran for that matter, but its been very difficult in very different ways.

Arya also doesnt know what her Sister went through. We as the audience do, but she really has no idea.

To her Sansa is a Joffrey loving traitor.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Arya also doesnt know what her Sister went through. We as the audience do, but she really has no idea.

To her Sansa is a Joffrey loving traitor.

See, thats one area where people could complain. You'd think that as soon as they were reunited they'd have sat down, had a couple glasses of wine and talked about where their lives have taken them for the past few years.

Just a lack of context seems kind of silly.

I mean, that just seems natural to me. What would anyone do if they hadnt seen their family in a really long time and thought they were dead? They'd catch up.

[Tinordi]

I actually don't have a big problem with the Arya/Sansa storyline. It generally fits the remit of both characters. And you need to have some type of drama in Winterfell. There was a lot of competition between the two characters before they were separated, they're just picking up where they left off.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by blankall

Arya's issue during training was always that she couldn't put aside her old beefs and no amount of training seemed to be able to change this part of her personality.

Yeah but it never made her incompetent. She could still sense lies and was still a master assassin.

Didn't seem to affect her much killing Meryn ####ing Trant or the Freys, why is it all of a sudden clouding her mind when it comes to her sister? And littlefinger? Does she even know anything about Littlefinger? Why would she even hate him? Does she even know he betrayed her father? He's never even been on her list.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Then stop watching it, and stop posting here. We get it. You think they are idiots that have ruined the show. You have said it numerous times. You don't need to keep saying it.

It's not just me, most TV critics, once big fans of the show are having some pretty serious reservations with where it's going. I mean, I can be a fan of the show and also be critical of it can't I?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai.../#655d51704840

It's been a topsy-turvy season for the HBO fantasy drama and tonight's episode, 'Beyond The Wall,' is just more evidence of that. While we got some incredible action scenes, gratifying CGI, and a few good moments of dialogue, the episode was also so pocked full of plot-holes and inexplicable writing decisions, I came away from it feeling incredibly letdown.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/8/2...-dumb-no-sense

The ridiculousness began as soon as Jon Snow and his merry band of wight-hunters began their trek north of the Wall in search of a reanimated corpse to capture and bring back to Cersei. The plan was ill-formed from the start, and they made some baffling decisions along the way. Yet their mission was ultimately successful, give or take a dragon death.

Not only did the tiny search party stumble upon a separated group of wights sooner rather than later, but they discovered that killing one White Walker probably kills every wight that it turned — in a moment that fortuitously still left them a single wight to capture. And from there, they made a series of miraculous escapes from what should have been certain death. There were countless holes in this idea and its execution, and yet, Jon Snow emerged victorious and alive once again.

In an effort to highlight the glaring moments of “Beyond the Wall” that just didn’t make any sense, we came up with 27 basic questions that the episode failed — or more accurately, didn’t even try — to answer.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...eyond-the-wall

This penultimate episode suggests that, for now at least, spectacle has the upper hand – and with that comes a host of problems. For while the stand-off with the Night’s King’s forces, Dany’s ride to the rescue and the dragging of Viserion from the icy deep were fun to watch (who wouldn’t gasp at the possibility of a zombie ice dragon?) the script was almost unbearably clunky.

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment...yond-the-wall/

This is not the same Thrones that fans adored through its first five seasons—a show with close attention to detail and lovingly crafted characters and plotlines. While things began to crack last season—its first without the guiding light of George R.R. Martin's books—it has become clear that the writers don't know how to complete the author's vision.

It goes on...

[JFK]

Are those critics posting in this thread annoying the people still loving the show?

When you don't get something, you really don't get it. No one is saying you can't be critical but if you're doing it at the annoyance of others maybe that's the cue to shut up about it. Say your piece, once, then move on. Harping on it endlessly, with multiple posts just makes you look stupid.

[Locke]

They're called critics for a reason. They are normally negative. If they were unilaterally positive they'd be called Cheerleaders.

Its the most watched TV show in the world. Sure, it isnt as good as the books that some of you love so much but arent finished but apparently its still pretty good.

I say 'pretty good' as in 'its the best there is.'

So while it may not treat your source material (which at this juncture doesnt exist) with the reverence you expect, it is still, objectively, better than literally everything and anything else.

And quite frankly, I get it. The people involved in this want to do something else with their lives now so they set an end and doing their best to end it.

And as much as that sucks for us as fans because they're just rushing to the finish line they're still putting out a very high quality product, theres a lot of honour in that.

You dont like it? Stop watching and just wait for George to finish the books.

Hahahahahaha!!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Yeah but it never made her incompetent. She could still sense lies and was still a master assassin.

Didn't seem to affect her much killing Meryn ####ing Trant or the Freys, why is it all of a sudden clouding her mind when it comes to her sister? And littlefinger? Does she even know anything about Littlefinger? Why would she even hate him? Does she even know he betrayed her father? He's never even been on her list.

Arya is still a child. Littlefinger is the master of manipulation. Littlefinger has manipulated some of the most cunning and competent rulers out there. He finds weak points in someone's psyche and exploits them. I don't really see how this is such a stretch, and Arya's actions are totally in line with what you'd expect from someone of her age, even someone who was forced to grow up fast.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JFK

Are those critics posting in this thread annoying the people still loving the show?

When you don't get something, you really don't get it. No one is saying you can't be critical but if you're doing it at the annoyance of others maybe that's the cue to shut up about it. Say your piece, once, then move on. Harping on it endlessly, with multiple posts just makes you look stupid.

I can't get too down on Tinordi as I have drawn the ire of some in TWD thread with my criticism. That said even this fast tracked season of GOT is infinitely better than the best TWD has ever offered. I will say he's gone out of his way numerous times to state basically the same thing over. I'm a bit more tactful in that I try to say my piece immediately after an episode and leave any more criticism for the next episode rather than beat the horse some more.

[blankall]

There's a difference between legitimate criticism and discussion and the posts that are basically "why am I even watching this" type posts. TWD picked up a ton of viewership from people who would traditionally not be into zombie type material. Once the novelty of the show ran off, the threads about the show became swamped in posts that contributing nothing to the discussion and took enjoyment away from people who were still enjoying the show.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by blankall

There's a difference between legitimate criticism and discussion and the posts that are basically "why am I even watching this" type posts. TWD picked up a ton of viewership from people who would traditionally not be into zombie type material. Once the novelty of the show ran off, the threads about the show became swamped in posts that contributing nothing to the discussion and took enjoyment away from people who were still enjoying the show.

It's not like Tinordi's criticism of GOT is taking any enjoyment of the show away from me so I don't understand this mindset of someone's criticism of something you like somehow ruining it for you. Realize that not everyone is going to like everything to the same degree you do and you will have a lot more enjoyment of things as only your opinion should matter to you.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's not like Tinordi's criticism of GOT is taking any enjoyment of the show away from me so I don't understand this mindset of someone's criticism of something you like somehow ruining it for you. Realize that not everyone is going to like everything to the same degree you do and you will have a lot more enjoyment of things as only your opinion should matter to you.

I wasn't talking about Tinordi specifically. My comments were more based on TWD thread. There, you literally have half the posts just being people stating that they don't plan to watch the show anymore...yet they make the same post every week.

Part of the enjoyment I get from shows like this is discussing them on forums. So having a forum that I frequent clogged up with posts that are totally negative and without any substance does take enjoyment away from my experience.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by blankall

I wasn't talking about Tinordi specifically. My comments were more based on TWD thread. There, you literally have half the posts just being people stating that they don't plan to watch the show anymore...yet they make the same post every week.

Part of the enjoyment I get from shows like this is discussing them on forums. So having a forum that I frequent clogged up with posts that are totally negative and without any substance does take enjoyment away from my experience.

I agree in that if you say you are done with the show then be done with it and leave others to discuss. I still like TWD but it some of the writing annoys me as does the filler but that has something to do with AMC really stretching the show out. It's been a gold mine for them so they are stuffing as many episodes as they can into a season but sometimes you can have too much of a good thing.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's not like Tinordi's criticism of GOT is taking any enjoyment of the show away from me so I don't understand this mindset of someone's criticism of something you like somehow ruining it for you. Realize that not everyone is going to like everything to the same degree you do and you will have a lot more enjoyment of things as only your opinion should matter to you.

I'm fine with legitimate criticism that makes a point. Coming back time after time to post dreck like this:

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The more you think about the last episode the more you realize how frickin bad the series has become. Nothing made sense. It's just distilled idiotic fan service at this point.

is not really adding anything to the discussion.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by blankall

There's a difference between legitimate criticism and discussion and the posts that are basically "why am I even watching this" type posts. TWD picked up a ton of viewership from people who would traditionally not be into zombie type material. Once the novelty of the show ran off, the threads about the show became swamped in posts that contributing nothing to the discussion and took enjoyment away from people who were still enjoying the show.

Totally agree. I think some of the discussion surrounding events and motivations is fascinating even if some of us don't agree. It seems pretty lame for someone to actually come in here and tell the rest of us what we can and cannot discuss. I'm extremely impressed with the thought and quality of the discussion. Just because not everyone agrees doesn't somehow debase the show or the quality of people's thoughts. We're all GoT fans. I don't think it is necessary for us to all think exactly alike when it comes to various aspects of the show. Seems childish for someone to get mad that other people may want to discuss their different interpretations of what is happening on the show, even if some thoughts are critical.

As someone who loves the show I'd be pretty annoyed if someone came in here and started trolling this thread with a bunch of drive by posts.

[Senator Clay Davis]

You'd think the criticism of the show was on par with saying it's Dexter after season 4 or SOA after season 2. This show has set an extremely high standard, so saying this season has been disappointing or a step back isn't saying it's awful, just that the standard is so high that this season hasn't really approached it. This has, to me, clearly been the weakest season so far....but it's still better than 95% of all season of TV ever. Still wildly entertaining, just not at the level of quality we've seen for most seasons.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The more you think about the last episode the more you realize how frickin bad the series has become. Nothing made sense. It's just distilled idiotic fan service at this point.

All intended in good fun.