Discussion: Do the Flames have a problem promoting young players?

[Icon]

I think what impacts this the most is the general feel that there's always older players signed to fill the bottom of the roster who aren't putting up points and aren't usually overly exciting to watch... and then it gets compounded when someone like Philips is putting up good numbers in the minors.

Now that obviously doesn't mean those young players would automatically translate that production to the Flames, nor does it mean the vets aren't serving a purpose that beyond providing points.

Everyone likes a shiny new toy.

[Racki]

I hate to be negative, but at this point...may as well just trade all our draft picks if we are going to build the team through trade and free agency. It has to be disheartening for the young guys on the farm that are working their asses off to make the big club.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You don't know that. Arizona had second claim on waivers and picked him up. There are 29 teams that could have potentially made a claim.

Brad flat out said only one team made a claim to

Next

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Not to mention guys like Gilbert ect who got some playing time when we had injuries

Yeah, and there are other guys like Jankowski, Bennett, and Hathaway that came up through the Flames system and got their chances in the the NHL with the Flames. Depending on how far back we want to go, we can pull names like Phaneuf, Giordano, Jooris, Iginla, Brodie, Ferland, Bouma, Granlund, Kulak, probably many more.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Brad flat out said only one team made a claim

can you please provide the quote or a link to the quote

edit: i have found this

https://twitter.com/user/status/1579904195016417280

[Icon]

How do claims work anyway? Does each team submit a claim for each player and the team with the player on waivers can see who put in a claim? Seems odd the league would pass that information along.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the easiest way to answer this question is to look at two things.

1. Young players that Calgary didn't promote that went on to have big NHL careers
2. Players that Calgary had in the system for a decent amount of time that were thrown into trades and went on to have solid NHL careers

Without 1 and/or 2 the answer is no isn't it?

2015 Heat
Promoted Kulak, Hathaway, Jankowski and Kylington. No other players promoted by another team

2016 Heat
Promoted Jankowski, Mangiapane, Andersson
Lomberg gets away.

2017 Heat
Same names (Mangipapane, Andersson, Kylington, Hathaway)
Nobody gets away

2018 Heat
Promote Dube, Mangiapane, Kylington, Valimaki
Still only Lomberg

2019 Heat
Promote Ruzicka
Let Czarnik and Gawdin get away.

2020 Heat
Includes Ruzicka, Mackey
Gawdin gets away

2021 Heat
Mackey, Ruzicka
Valimaki and Gawdin get away

So it's Lomberg and Valimaki at this point ... and it would be pretty easy to find a pretty big majority of CPers saying Valimaki was done before he was claimed so that really can't be called a big loss.

Don't we need a list of impact players that have gone on to huge NHL careers elsewhere in order to prove the Flames won't promote players that should be promoted?

Only makes sense to me.

Valimaki also had plenty of opportunities and didn't earn his keep.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Icon

How do claims work anyway? Does each team submit a claim for each player and the team with the player on waivers can see who put in a claim? Seems odd the league would pass that information along.

Well the GM must know who puts claims in because he flat out said it on fan960. He also said they tried to trade him.

[Macho0978]

Ruzicka leads the Flames in PPG. Lots wanted him earlier but maybe being patient is why he is tearing it up for us.

Phillips in the only player in the AHL that is tearing it up and it doesn't make sense at his age he hasn't got a crack.

Zary, Wolf and Pelletier are still very young.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

1. Jon Cooper - 2
2. Mike Sullivan - 2
3. Darryl Sutter - 2
4. Jared Bednar - 1
5. Craig Berube -1
6. Peter Laviolette - 1
7. John Tortorella - 1

7/32 coaches know first hand what it takes to win the cup. This is not a license to kill, but it should allow some patience. Sutter has a deserved reputation as a coach who prefers veterans, but he also has a reputation of taking lunch pail teams deep into the playoffs.

It blows my mind that there are only 10 years worth of championships represented by active coaches.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Ruzicka leads the Flames in PPG. Lots wanted him earlier but maybe being patient is why he is tearing it up for us.

Phillips in the only player in the AHL that is tearing it up and it doesn't make sense at his age he hasn't got a crack.

Zary, Wolf and Pelletier are still very young.

Ruzicka is also huge...he has a massive advantage at the NHL level

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Kasi

It’s probably going to lose us Coronato. Shame we can’t rectify it but it’s the direction this franchise is going.

Thread off the rails by the second post. Impressive.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by dobbles

It blows my mind that there are only 10 years worth of championships represented by active coaches.

and only 4 of those coaches have won in the last 10 years.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Thread off the rails by the second post. Impressive.

You never know

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I mean, if a little positive reinforcement has caused him to become a pretty solid player in Arizona - why didn't we do that?

A little criticism of your favorite team isn't the worst thing you can do. We're not going to do everything right.

he was a recent healthy scratch.

To add, 960 had an Arizona beat reporter on this morning and he touched on Juuso. His view was that the team is giving him big minutes, including on unit 2 of the PP, to find out what they have. That a team like Arizona is in a unique position to be able to award ice time in such a way, because they are focused on building their asset base moreso than winning games now.

So that's why he's getting the time. They are trying to figure out if there is a player there or not. And how far up the lineup he can play.

[calumniate]

still early.. bodies get banged up. I'd assume we see phillips this year.. just not yet

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Ruzicka is also huge...he has a massive advantage at the NHL level

A lot of people complained last year even though he was promoted to the NHL he was benched a ton and played 4th line most nights. The Flames were ruining him! Now he's leading the team in PPG. Hard to say if the patience contributed to his success but he's looking very good right now

[Calgary4LIfe]

We trade 3 players and suddenly the organization is atrocious and drafting and development? I argue the complete opposite. I think that the Flames have graduated more than their fair share of players from their drafting/development program. Better than most teams, especially when you factor-in things like pick# and total number of picks.



The sudden 'problem' is the fact that quite a lot of futures went out in trades over the last few years. Are the posters complaining about a lack of prospects pushing through now the same ones that complained - or at least 'raised issues' - about so many futures being traded?



So let's be honest here. This isn't about the Flames suddenly being lousy at development. This is just built-up angst over Phillips not being on the team already.


I think a prospect has 3 'windows of opportunity' to make the NHL.
1) Training camp - Phillips fell on his face there and laid a big fat egg
2) Injury time - Flames have been relatively healthy
3) End of season when the team is either way out of a spot, or very comfortable in one that allows them to rest players


At training camp, I thought Phillips looked terrible outside of a couple of plays. IIRC, he was constantly underwater too from an analytics perspective, no? Zary looked like a guy who was ready. Pettersen I thought looked pretty good until his injury (and I had written him off). I was all-aboard the Phillips train, but he basically went out and showed everyone that he is NOT NHL-ready. So now he has to wait.


Plenty of posters were hoping for Ruzicka to be sent down and assumed that he would pass through waivers. Now he looks like one of the more important players on the team, and is really growing into his role. I don't think that Ruzicka necessarily made the team in training camp, but it would be a completely idiotic idea to simply look at who is the best performers without looking at asset management. If that was the case, Ruzicka would maybe have been Oilers' property now or some other team, and we would all be riled-up about how Treliving is the worst GM in history again.


Phillips had his shot and he blew it. Now he is doing what he needs to do, and that's showing this organization that he deserves another one, and that his name should be at the top of the list for call-ups. However, I disagree that the Flames make room for him. There is a LONG list of players who excelled at the AHL level and did nothing in the NHL, and judging by Phillips' camps thus far, he may be one of those. He simply has to wait for the next opportunity, and I am sure that it will eventually come. What he does with it is up to him, and I really hope that he does well with it and forces the team to give him a permanent spot. Time will tell what happens.


I, however, completely disagree with the notion that the Flames haven't been a strong organization in terms of promoting players into the NHL. Ruzicka is basically a rookie this year after cutting his teeth last year. Valimaki had LOADS of opportunity and failed. Mackey has looked very pedestrian. Ruzicka is turning into a star. What's the problem? We trade 3 drafted/developed players, and suddenly we forget? No, this is all about Phillips. The organization has zero issues when it comes to promoting players. It somehow has a huge issue with Phillips and Phillips alone, and thus far, I really have to put the blame and responsibility on Phillips and Phillips alone.

[iggyloob12]

Sutter was clear about what he needed from Ruzicka: second and third effort and consistency. He sat a bunch as a result but seems to have responded the right way.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Buff

Valimaki also had plenty of opportunities and didn't earn his keep.

But is Valimaki it?

Or did I miss some names - that is a player that wasn't promoted here that should have been that have gone on to other organizations and flourished?

Because as I said ... if there isn't a list then there really isn't a case for the organization not promoting players is there?