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Old 12-06-2022, 07:52 AM   #121
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Are you saying Johnson and Rittich are NHL starters that the Flames held back despite their obviously superior abilities?

I don't see any evidence that you are correct.
And every team manages their goaltenders that way.

You have a starter who generally makes 5X more money and is a key investment for the team.

You have a set plan coming into a season of a games split and you go away from it if the starter if wilting, but come back to it when you see he's finding his game.

We are seeing it in Edmonton as well.

Vancouver sticking with Demko though he was clearly off to start the year.
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Old 12-06-2022, 08:39 AM   #122
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Are you saying Johnson and Rittich are NHL starters that the Flames held back despite their obviously superior abilities?

I don't see any evidence that you are correct.
I don't see where i saw that either Johnson or Rittich are "starters". I reject the idea that, outside of a select few franchise goalies, starters are anything but an external construct based on fortunate timing. Goalies are fickle and their performance is pretty random. 'Starters' like Markstrom falter in the playoffs, '3rd stringers' like Binnington and Murray can win cups the same year they are in the AHL. Even two time Vezina winner Bobrovsky hasn't given his team the calibre of goaltending they need.

If Markstrom is the hot hand down the stretch I am all for it, I just want it to be earned organically. Not based on 'Starter' status or salary or 'leadership'

In that sense, Holtby circa 2018 is a good example of what I like to see. IIRC he didn't even get the game 1 start in the playoff. He earned it back at the right time, but not because it was handed to him on a platter.

At this point, if Wolf, Markstrom, or Vladar are our playoff goalie, I want it to be an open question because it puts the team ahead of arbitrary assignments. To me the most important thing is not burning out any individual or alternatively, letting an individual get cold.
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Old 12-06-2022, 09:15 AM   #123
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Around the League Report




Spoiler!
Jordan sure posts a lot for 1 guy on game night.
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Old 12-06-2022, 09:21 AM   #124
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From what I remember the year with Johnson he eventually cooled off which gave Elliott a chance to get it back and he went on a bit of a heater himself and looked like the goalie we thought the Flames were getting before falling back down again at the end of the season and playoffs.

Then I think it was the year the Flames finished first in the West where Rittich was good until the stick toss against Edmonton and Smith got the net back.

I hope Vladar plays this well for as long as possible but I'm expecting him to eventually cool down too and I highly doubt Markstrom is going to have confidence issues all season. Eventually he's going to get the net back.

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Old 12-06-2022, 09:29 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
I don't see where i saw that either Johnson or Rittich are "starters". I reject the idea that, outside of a select few franchise goalies, starters are anything but an external construct based on fortunate timing. Goalies are fickle and their performance is pretty random. 'Starters' like Markstrom falter in the playoffs, '3rd stringers' like Binnington and Murray can win cups the same year they are in the AHL. Even two time Vezina winner Bobrovsky hasn't given his team the calibre of goaltending they need.

If Markstrom is the hot hand down the stretch I am all for it, I just want it to be earned organically. Not based on 'Starter' status or salary or 'leadership'

In that sense, Holtby circa 2018 is a good example of what I like to see. IIRC he didn't even get the game 1 start in the playoff. He earned it back at the right time, but not because it was handed to him on a platter.

At this point, if Wolf, Markstrom, or Vladar are our playoff goalie, I want it to be an open question because it puts the team ahead of arbitrary assignments. To me the most important thing is not burning out any individual or alternatively, letting an individual get cold.
Obviously I missed your point.
Is is it that you want the team to play the goalie that is playing the best rather than the one who is considered the starter (based on a long sample size of consistent performance), like what the Flames are currently doing now with Vladar and have done in the past with Rittich and Johnson?
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Old 12-06-2022, 09:48 AM   #126
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From what I remember the year with Johnson he eventually cooled off which gave Elliott a chance to get it back and he went on a bit of a heater himself and looked like the goalie we thought the Flames were getting before falling back down again at the end of the season and playoffs.

Then I think it was the year the Flames finished first in the West where Rittich was good until the stick toss against Edmonton and Smith got the net back.

I hope Vladar plays this well for as long as possible but I'm expecting him to eventually cool down too and I highly doubt Markstrom is going to have confidence issues all season. Eventually he's going to get the net back.
I really don't see Vladar "cooling down" as he's really not doing anything special. He faced what? 18 shots last night? Don't get me wrong, he's stopping the majority of the shots he needs to, but it's certainly not like he's standing on his head or the reason the team in winning games. If Markstrom let in either of the goals Vladar did last night, I'm sure people would be calling for his head again too.

Markstrom will eventually come around and get away from the weird mistakes that were plaguing him, but even at that we are probably looking at something closer to a 55-45% split the rest of the way this year. This is a good thing as it gives the Flames a lot to work with going into the post season and down the stretch without a overworked goalie on either side of the coin.
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Old 12-06-2022, 10:02 AM   #127
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I really don't see Vladar "cooling down" as he's really not doing anything special. He faced what? 18 shots last night? Don't get me wrong, he's stopping the majority of the shots he needs to, but it's certainly not like he's standing on his head or the reason the team in winning games.
I don't think he's standing on his head and stealing games but he's playing well. As good as you want from your backup when the starter has confidence issues.

By cooling down I mean he'll go back to playing like a backup where more of the big saves he is making are going in and people aren't proclaiming him as the new starter like they were with Johnson and Rittich.

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If Markstrom let in either of the goals Vladar did last night, I'm sure people would be calling for his head again too.
Oh, I have no doubt about this.
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Old 12-06-2022, 10:13 AM   #128
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Dube has 7 points in his last 10.

Huby has 8 points in his last 10, 5 in his last 5.

Kadri has 5 points in his last 10, which includes a 7-game pointless streak.
Huberdeaus points will come, but I didn't expect another 100-point season from him more of a 80-90.

I think we look at the numbers and think everyone gets their points playing McDavis cheating hockey, but reality is the points come off broken plays, and down low work, some rush chances.

Look at the 100-point plays for Johnny and Matthew last year, those pucks bounce of sticks and pads and went in because we directed pucks to the net.
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Old 12-06-2022, 10:56 AM   #129
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Obviously I missed your point.
Is is it that you want the team to play the goalie that is playing the best rather than the one who is considered the starter (based on a long sample size of consistent performance), like what the Flames are currently doing now with Vladar and have done in the past with Rittich and Johnson?
My point is that I want the Flames to consistently evaluate and play the goalie playing the best not just at times of desperation because the 'Designated Starter' is a liability.
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:04 AM   #130
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My point is that I want the Flames to consistently evaluate and play the goalie playing the best not just at times of desperation because the 'Designated Starter' is a liability.
I think if the assumption is that the starter is cooked, you better make the move to the backup.

If the view is "we need to get the starter back to where he should be" with a thought that the starter back to his average you have a better goaltender than the backup at max output you manage that accordingly.

Which would result in an allocation of starts that would conflict with what you want.
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:17 AM   #131
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Huby with 15 points in 22 games, suddenly not looking terrible

looks like a guy on the rebound
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:37 AM   #132
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It would be nice if the Flames can better capitalize on empty net goals so some of these guys can pad their stats a bit.
Not to mention cash in for people who ho had Flames -1.5 tied to several other bets.
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:40 AM   #133
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They’re in a third way tie for second worst in the league with a goal differential of -20, have lost six in a row and are 1-6-3 in their last 10.

Yes they are a team in the NHL that beats other NHL teams, doesn’t mean that the flames should be giving up multi goal leads to them. These games against the bottom 1/3 of the league are leaving little room for error if we’re trying to grab a wild card spot.
Yeah, and they won. A win is a win. Fans of this team expect too much. It’s okay to win games that you only play okay in. I’m fact, that could even be seen as a positive thing. Not for many on this board lately though.
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Old 12-06-2022, 11:45 AM   #134
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But you gotta admit, there were times the coyotes were pushing pretty hard and had us in trouble at important points in the game.
If that doesn’t happen against an NHL team at times every game then that is on the other team. These are the top professionals in the world! Yes, the Coyotes collection of the top professionals is a little less talented than most, but it’s still a collection of top professionals.
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Old 12-06-2022, 02:11 PM   #135
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Yes they are a team in the NHL that beats other NHL teams, doesn’t mean that the flames should be giving up multi goal leads to them.
Well, it's a good thing the Flames did give up a multi-goal lead to Arizona last night. Otherwise you wouldn't have anything to complain about.
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Old 12-06-2022, 02:17 PM   #136
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From what I remember the year with Johnson he eventually cooled off which gave Elliott a chance to get it back and he went on a bit of a heater himself and looked like the goalie we thought the Flames were getting before falling back down again at the end of the season and playoffs.

Then I think it was the year the Flames finished first in the West where Rittich was good until the stick toss against Edmonton and Smith got the net back.

I hope Vladar plays this well for as long as possible but I'm expecting him to eventually cool down too and I highly doubt Markstrom is going to have confidence issues all season. Eventually he's going to get the net back.
Stick toss was the year after.

Smith got the net back because Peters had no clue what he was doing towards the end of the season. You play your best option not a vet just because he is a vet, Smith sucked big time that season and was gone afterwards.

Same season Kylington showed promise, but we decided to waster picks on Fattenburg or whatever his name was.
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Old 12-06-2022, 02:37 PM   #137
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Smith got the net back because Peters had no clue what he was doing towards the end of the season. You play your best option not a vet just because he is a vet, Smith sucked big time that season and was gone afterwards.
Smith was streaky the first half but was better in the second half and won his job back.
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