Guns. Lots of Guns.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This was an easy thread to kind of walk away from, it went from interesting to pretty much painful. Its too bad, because this is a topic that should be debated and a thread that should be informative. But I don't think it is anymore.

The trolls took over. It had a few good pages but it's dead now

[troutman]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

MBates being a dick,

What? He was not.

[Flames_Gimp]

Can someone post some recent laws changed by OIC? Pepsifree suggests that's it's used all the time. I don't recall this happening often.

[Flames_Gimp]

The Anti-gun wacko's will say anything to justify a gun grab.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Can someone post some recent laws changed by OIC? Pepsifree suggests that's it's used all the time. I don't recall this happening often.

You can search for them here. From a casual look it seems to happen all the time.

https://orders-in-council.canada.ca/results.php?lang=en

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by troutman

What? He was not.

Apologies, that was uncalled for.

[Cliche]

Elmer fudd has no guns, neither will Yosimite Sam.

Even thinking of guns is wrongthink now.

but IED's, edged weapons and blunt objects are ok.

[Flames_Gimp]

https://abc7chicago.com/6224654/?fbc...ICB4F8XNIohUP4

The gun ban worked eh...

[CaptainCrunch]

Federal Government has continued to add weapons to the ban list without publishing or working very hard at educating the public.


https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...e-gun-ban-list

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

https://abc7chicago.com/6224654/?fbc...ICB4F8XNIohUP4

The gun ban worked eh...

You know that gun bans are useless in the US when anyone can drive 25 minutes and buy anything they want, right? They need to be nationwide. And also, holy **** 27 homicides in one weekend. I knew Chicago was bad but I had no idea it was that insane. 92 shot, 27 dead.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Federal Government has continued to add weapons to the ban list without publishing or working very hard at educating the public.


https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...e-gun-ban-list

Assuming there is plenty of time for that, given the two year amnesty period (which, apparently the writer didn’t know, considering he thinks hunters are going to be arrested en masse in the fall, so I’m curious about what he does know).

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by jayswin

You know that gun bans are useless in the US when anyone can drive 25 minutes and buy anything they want, right? They need to be nationwide. And also, holy **** 27 homicides in one weekend. I knew Chicago was bad but I had no idea it was that insane. 92 shot, 27 dead.

Criminals will always find a way. Crazy weekend eh?

[Fuzz]

Feel bad for the medical workers dealing with that crap every day. Imagine going to work knowing you are going to be dealing with gunshot wounds all night?

[corporatejay]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-chicago-became-chiraq

[CaptainCrunch]

Remember when we laughed at people that swore that video games and violent cartoons created mass murders. Or the whole thing where heavy metal music made people commit suicide or worship Satan.


Political correctness comes to Looney Tunes


https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment...source=twitter

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Assuming there is plenty of time for that, given the two year amnesty period (which, apparently the writer didn’t know, considering he thinks hunters are going to be arrested en masse in the fall, so I’m curious about what he does know).

The author’s views on the amnesty notwithstanding, the RCMP HAS been taking the opportunity to quietly update the FRT to show hundreds of firearms as prohibited when their previous status was non-restricted and being very, very loose with their criteria for changes.

It includes rifles they examined within the last two years and determined they were not based on AR platforms and met all legal definitions of NR firearms and a .22 caliber rifle that only looks like an AR because of its plastic shell (much like the Blaze 47 nonsense).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Interesting discussion. Too bad it got derailed. Maybe these questions will get it back on track. Why do you own guns? What do you use them for? How would you enact reasonable gun control? I think this is the framework for an honest discussion and can quickly push the trolls out of the thread.

Why do you own guns?

I own guns because I live in the United States and gun culture is a huge part of this country's cultural fabric. The number of guns exceeds the number of individuals in the country! That's cultural. I feel it is important to be prepared for all possibilities and when there are so many guns around you, you must take similar measures to protect oneself. I also like going to remote locations where having a sidearm is beneficial for protection from critters. This doesn't account for the majority of what I own, but it is one of the original reasons why I decided to buy my first gun.

What do you use them for?

Personal protection is the primary use. I own rifles that I suggest are for hunting, but if I'm being honest I couldn't put a bullet down range toward a defenseless and innocent animal. I would only shoot an animal if I considered them a clear and present danger. So if I cut the bull#### and be honest, I bought every gun I own with one intent, and that is to kill perceived threats and protect myself and my family.

I don't consider target practice a reason for owning. Target practice is not a hobby, it is training. It is learning how to responsibly put a round down range and hit your target in a location that will do maximum damage. This is not for fun (although it can be a lot of fun) this is to develop a skill that will be used when needed. Putting holes in a target can be done with a non-lethal air gun. Target shooting can be done with a paintball gun. Using a real gun for this purpose and claiming you are doing so to put holes in paper targets or hit some steel is a cop out. You bought a certain weapon because it can be used to apply lethal force. Full stop. Target shooting is no reason for ownership.

How would you enact reasonable gun control?

Gun control is simple. Limit the potential to put rounds down range, limit the action, and restrict certain cartridges.

Limit the potential to put rounds down range by limiting the capacity of magazines. No more than six rounds in a magazine. If you need more than that to hit your target, you need more range time. If you're a hunter and you need more than four rounds you likely shouldn't be in the woods and are likely to go hungry. If you are protecting yourself and you need more than six rounds, you're a dead man walking and just haven't figured that out yet. Limit mag capacities to six rounds and you limit the damage an individual can do.

Limiting the action is the next step. No more semi-automatics. For hand guns you are limited to a revolver and the good old fashioned wheel. For rifles you are limited to manual bolt or lever action. For shot guns you are limited to breach or pump. Restrictions on number of rounds your weapon can carry apply. This means there is a deliberative manual movement for every round put down range.

Finally limit certain cartridges. There really is no reason for certain weapons to be available to the public. Why would anyone need a .50 caliber rifle? Those rounds create a pink mist on impact. They are designed for one reason and one reason only, and those should not be available to the public.

One thing that has not been mentioned about gun ownership is the responsibility that comes with it. Way too many gun owners pay little regard to this massive responsibility. It takes up space (safes for guns and ammunition) and money. Owning a gun means properly securing it and complying with all laws associated with the weapon. Owning a gun means owning appropriate gun safes for the storage and transportation of your weapon. Yes, weapons must be properly secured at all times, and secured means safe should you become incapacitated in some way (car accident for example). That extends to having a weapon on your person as well.

Even though I live in an open carry state I completed a concealed carry course to be permitted to carry in a secure way. Showing your weapon on your hip is not smart IMO and makes you a target. The level of discomfort knowing your head must be on a swivel at all times is exhausting. Better to be concealed and out of eye sight, giving people ideas.

Finally, owning a gun requires a great deal of maintenance. Not just on the weapons themselves, needing to be cleaned and lubed regularly, but also your skill. You need to put lots or rounds down range to maintain your skill. This can be expensive depending on the round you fire. When you own a gun you should be making a commitment to learning how to use it, how to train with it, and then maintain that training. When that training slides so does the responsibility of ownership. If you are not prepared for the level of expense and responsibility, don't buy a gun. You become a danger to yourself and those around you.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by New Era

Interesting discussion. Too bad it got derailed. Maybe these questions will get it back on track. Why do you own guns? What do you use them for? How would you enact reasonable gun control? I think this is the framework for an honest discussion and can quickly push the trolls out of the thread.

Why do you own guns?

I own guns because I live in the United States and gun culture is a huge part of this country's cultural fabric. The number of guns exceeds the number of individuals in the country! That's cultural. I feel it is important to be prepared for all possibilities and when there are so many guns around you, you must take similar measures to protect oneself. I also like going to remote locations where having a sidearm is beneficial for protection from critters. This doesn't account for the majority of what I own, but it is one of the original reasons why I decided to buy my first gun.

What do you use them for?

Personal protection is the primary use. I own rifles that I suggest are for hunting, but if I'm being honest I couldn't put a bullet down range toward a defenseless and innocent animal. I would only shoot an animal if I considered them a clear and present danger. So if I cut the bull#### and be honest, I bought every gun I own with one intent, and that is to kill perceived threats and protect myself and my family.

I don't consider target practice a reason for owning. Target practice is not a hobby, it is training. It is learning how to responsibly put a round down range and hit your target in a location that will do maximum damage. This is not for fun (although it can be a lot of fun) this is to develop a skill that will be used when needed. Putting holes in a target can be done with a non-lethal air gun. Target shooting can be done with a paintball gun. Using a real gun for this purpose and claiming you are doing so to put holes in paper targets or hit some steel is a cop out. You bought a certain weapon because it can be used to apply lethal force. Full stop. Target shooting is no reason for ownership.

How would you enact reasonable gun control?

Gun control is simple. Limit the potential to put rounds down range, limit the action, and restrict certain cartridges.

Limit the potential to put rounds down range by limiting the capacity of magazines. No more than six rounds in a magazine. If you need more than that to hit your target, you need more range time. If you're a hunter and you need more than four rounds you likely shouldn't be in the woods and are likely to go hungry. If you are protecting yourself and you need more than six rounds, you're a dead man walking and just haven't figured that out yet. Limit mag capacities to six rounds and you limit the damage an individual can do.

Limiting the action is the next step. No more semi-automatics. For hand guns you are limited to a revolver and the good old fashioned wheel. For rifles you are limited to manual bolt or lever action. For shot guns you are limited to breach or pump. Restrictions on number of rounds your weapon can carry apply. This means there is a deliberative manual movement for every round put down range.

Finally limit certain cartridges. There really is no reason for certain weapons to be available to the public. Why would anyone need a .50 caliber rifle? Those rounds create a pink mist on impact. They are designed for one reason and one reason only, and those should not be available to the public.

One thing that has not been mentioned about gun ownership is the responsibility that comes with it. Way too many gun owners pay little regard to this massive responsibility. It takes up space (safes for guns and ammunition) and money. Owning a gun means properly securing it and complying with all laws associated with the weapon. Owning a gun means owning appropriate gun safes for the storage and transportation of your weapon. Yes, weapons must be properly secured at all times, and secured means safe should you become incapacitated in some way (car accident for example). That extends to having a weapon on your person as well.

Even though I live in an open carry state I completed a concealed carry course to be permitted to carry in a secure way. Showing your weapon on your hip is not smart IMO and makes you a target. The level of discomfort knowing your head must be on a swivel at all times is exhausting. Better to be concealed and out of eye sight, giving people ideas.

Finally, owning a gun requires a great deal of maintenance. Not just on the weapons themselves, needing to be cleaned and lubed regularly, but also your skill. You need to put lots or rounds down range to maintain your skill. This can be expensive depending on the round you fire. When you own a gun you should be making a commitment to learning how to use it, how to train with it, and then maintain that training. When that training slides so does the responsibility of ownership. If you are not prepared for the level of expense and responsibility, don't buy a gun. You become a danger to yourself and those around you.

First off, thanks for your post. I thank you for your honesty about why you purchased your weapons.

There is a lot in there, and I am kind of typing of the top of my head so I hope it doesn't come across as terse or flippant.

How many weapons do you own and what type?

One thing I would like you to speak to is storage of your weapons. Are they trigger locked and in a gun safe? Is ammunition stored in the same safe or a different safe?

What floor of your property are the weapons stored?

Do you keep any weapons/ammunition unsecured in your property at any time?

I ask as I have always had a problem reconciling proper storage and protection of family/property. I perceive the threats as taking place in your home. If an intruder breaks in do you believe you will have time to open your safe, remove the trigger guard, load the weapon all before the intruder's threat becomes very real?

With the proliferation of weapons in the states it might be useful to look into a two way range to work on your skills whilst receiving incoming fire.

I will say one of my favourite things is cleaning weapons. It smells great, feels great and the end result is lovely. I have many good memories cleaning weapons after ranges.

It is sad that the US has devolved to such a state that you feel the need to be armed to feel safe.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by New Era

Interesting discussion. Too bad it got derailed. Maybe these questions will get it back on track. Why do you own guns? What do you use them for? How would you enact reasonable gun control? I think this is the framework for an honest discussion and can quickly push the trolls out of the thread.

...

Articulate, sensible, and perfectly reasonable post. Thanks NE, I find myself agreeing with everything you're saying here.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

First off, thanks for your post. I thank you for your honesty about why you purchased your weapons.

There is a lot in there, and I am kind of typing of the top of my head so I hope it doesn't come across as terse or flippant.

I hope you'll understand when I am not specific about certain things.

How many weapons do you own and what type?

More than enough. I have redundancies in every weapons platform and have purchased based on establishing a layered protective perimeter from 1,500 yards. This means being able to reach out that far. Effective range is much less under stress. Most weapons are for close combat and designed for as much stealth as possible. Yes, this means I have NFA items. Calibers range, but I have tried to use calibers that can supply multiple weapons/platforms. Lets just say that my favorite calibers are .308, 5.56, .45, .380, 9mm, and .22lr. Some are all business, some are for training, then some are for fun.

One thing I would like you to speak to is storage of your weapons. Are they trigger locked and in a gun safe? Is ammunition stored in the same safe or a different safe?

I have multiple safes including one in each vehicle I own. A weapon is always in a safe when not on my person. I do not use trigger locks unless transporting a weapon that will not fit in a vehicle safe (long guns). Beyond that, a weapon never leaves the safe unless it is on me. Ammunition is stored separately, but at times in the same room/vehicle. Ammunition is maintained in a secure closet with locks on the ammo cans. When traveling, ammo is in locked cans. The only exception to this is the loaded magazine in the safe with my daily carry, which is close enough to deal with an intruder.

What floor of your property are the weapons stored?

I only have one floor. You will too when you get old and your joints start barking at you when they sense stairs around.

Do you keep any weapons/ammunition unsecured in your property at any time?

No. Even when I receive an order of ammunition, as soon as I receive it the ammo is cataloged and immediately secured. If I exceed my current capacity to store in a secure manner, I order appropriate cans and locks to meet the new order.

I ask as I have always had a problem reconciling proper storage and protection of family/property. I perceive the threats as taking place in your home. If an intruder breaks in do you believe you will have time to open your safe, remove the trigger guard, load the weapon all before the intruder's threat becomes very real?

If an intruder breaks in I can have my weapon out of the safe and loaded in less than 15 seconds (stress tested and trained), and many times less than 10 seconds. Again, this means there is a loaded magazine in the safe with an unloaded gun, so I just have to access the safe, grab the gun and the magazine, load the mag, and rack and roll.

With the proliferation of weapons in the states it might be useful to look into a two way range to work on your skills whilst receiving incoming fire.

That is what the desert is for. Although the concept of having someone shooting at you while you train is suicidal. I would not condone such activity. There are training methods that can simulate battle stress and I recommend those than others that could put your life at risk.