Feds to pay Aboriginals $500 - $700 million for Non Aboriginal Foster homes

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Intentions do not matter, its the real effect that matters. These programs ended up being cultural genocide; it destroyed generations of aborignals. They've pretty much lost their language, way of life and culture and its disgusting what we've done. The effects of these abuses are still very visible in the population today.

It's pretty hilarious how people still don't get this. Do people realize how many historical atrocities you can excuse or explain away by using the "well they were just doing what they thought was best," or "well it wasn't intended to be like that" cards?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I agree with the settlement, what happened was terrible and never should have happened. I do wonder though when does the country move forward? I know all this reconciliation stuff is happening and what not but I think the more and more we continue with things like this the more and more apprehension or anger will begin to bubble up.

I would think this settlement 'settles' part of it and the country attempts to move forward. How does it move forward? The money isn't as important as the education in schools that teaches this to kids going forward. I don't think I was taught this in school, I just thought natives were bums without knowing what happened to a lot of them.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I agree with the settlement, what happened was terrible and never should have happened. I do wonder though when does the country move forward? I know all this reconciliation stuff is happening and what not but I think the more and more we continue with things like this the more and more apprehension or anger will begin to bubble up.

The country can move forward when the aborignals are no longer suffering in substance abuse and ####ty living conditions.

I still don't believe that the government has sincere intentions with regards to the aboriginals; heck if they got organized they could demand a lot more but alas' the feds know that they so throw cheap booze their way.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

The country can move forward when the aborignals are no longer suffering in substance abuse and ####ty living conditions.

I still don't believe that the government has sincere intentions with regards to the aboriginals; heck if they got organized they could demand a lot more but alas' the feds know that they so throw cheap booze their way.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I would think this settlement 'settles' part of it and the country attempts to move forward. How does it move forward? The money isn't as important as the education in schools that teaches this to kids going forward. I don't think I was taught this in school, I just thought natives were bums without knowing what happened to a lot of them.

I can't really remember specifics of what was learned in school, there was some first nations learning but I would be shocked if anything like this was taught. I do think its important for people to learn this stuff. Is the money not as important? I don't know about that.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

So my people, Sikhs, are going through something very similar in Punjab. The government to keep us quite and inactive as thrown drugs and cheap booze all over the Punjab, guess what? It worked.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I can't really remember specifics of what was learned in school, there was some first nations learning but I would be shocked if anything like this was taught. I do think its important for people to learn this stuff. Is the money not as important? I don't know about that.

I don't think the money is as important. I made this argument when the government compensated for the Chinese Head Tax and the Japanese internment. The money is nice but really it's just another playstation for a kid born 100 years after the event. These events should be taught in school as history, and not swept under the carpet. Maybe the money could be used to increase the curriculum instead.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Sort of?

You are right- poor choice of words on my part. I was thinking "as a form of"- instead of the implied "not really, but sort of."

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

So was the Residential School System. Let’s excuse that too.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Shucks, I mean them white folks were just trying to do their best.

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Intentions do not matter, its the real effect that matters. These programs ended up being cultural genocide; it destroyed generations of aborignals. They've pretty much lost their language, way of life and culture and its disgusting what we've done. The effects of these abuses are still very visible in the population today.

So what were the alternatives at the time?

It's 1955. You're the head of the Department of Indian Affairs. Few Natives in Northern Canada have any education or training. They eke out a subsistence livelihood trapping or fishing. Canada does not yet have a welfare state, so people with no jobs have no money and live in poverty.

The only functional institution in isolated regions of the North, besides a few mines and logging mills, is the Catholic Church. Most Natives are Catholic. The Church offers to set up schools, like the ones that teach most children in Quebec and Ireland. This means some Native children will learn to read and write, and make themselves employable. The alternative is illiteracy and dire poverty.

Some families have 8, 12 children. Alcohol abuse is rampant. The children in these homes have little opportunity. Mothers have babies they can't care for (read the link I posted). Couples elsewhere in Canada want to adopt.

What do you do?

[PaperBagger'14]

I don't see the money as being the proper path to reconciliation. Issues like this, residential schools and the oka crisis won't be resolved through handouts IMO. If the government would have put this money towards native infrastructure like clean water or other issues they currently face, it would show compassion and concern.

My train of thought is that this is like getting a gift card to a restaurant when what you really need is a frying pan.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Of course intentions matter. But it's also possible to have good intentions and nonetheless commit an act that puts you in a position where you're liable for tort damages.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's pretty hilarious how people still don't get this. Do people realize how many historical atrocities you can excuse or explain away by using the "well they were just doing what they thought was best," or "well it wasn't intended to be like that" cards?

And you don't get that knowledge and values change. No doubt in 60 years, things we - including rubecube - believe to be good and just will be considered monstrous by most people. Will there be any point, in 2060, of vilifying those behaviors?

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics...vors-1.4342462

$35 - $50k per person for being placed in non-aboriginal homes during the 60s causing a loss of their identity and culture.

I'm really tired of settlements, land claims, agreements from the 1800s. We're all Canadians, plain and simple. No further special treatment for X group over Y group.

I could go on and on about this settlement, but isn't this like putting a Dutch kid into a German home or a Catholic into an atheist home?

Some kids have a very rough go and it's great our society has a social system in place. In 3rd world countries, we'd be homeless. This just grinds my gears more than the other threads.

Your posts reeks of ignorance. Tired of settlements and land claims? The monetary value of those are a drop in the bucket to the wealth that the colonized land provided settlers and their many generations after that.

It’s ironic you mention “3rd world countries” in your post as that is the reality for some First Nations especially those in the North. For you it would appear this is out of sight out of mind. But I can tell you from seeing it first hand that it’s god damn heart breaking to see people in those conditions. I truly hope some long term good comes out of this and helps people get a leg up.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So what were the alternatives at the time?

It's 1955. You're the head of the Department of Indian Affairs. Few Natives in Northern Canada have any education or training. They eke out a subsistence livelihood trapping or fishing. Canada does not yet have a welfare state, so people with no jobs have no money and live in poverty.

The only functional institution in isolated regions of the North, besides a few mines and logging mills, is the Catholic Church. Most Natives are Catholic. The Church offers to set up schools, like the ones that teach most children in Quebec and Ireland. This means some Native children will learn to read and write, and make themselves employable. The alternative is illiteracy and dire poverty.

Some families have 8, 12 children. Alcohol abuse is rampant. The children in these homes have little opportunity. Mothers have babies they can't care for (read the link I posted). Couples elsewhere in Canada want to adopt.

What do you do?

Are you seriously arguing that stealing children from their parents and subjecting them to atrocities was the best course of action?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And you don't get that knowledge and values change. No doubt in 60 years, things we - including rubecube - believe to be good and just will be considered monstrous by most people. Will there be any point, in 2060, of vilifying those behaviors?

If they cause harm to a point where some form of restitution is necessary? Of course. If the history of those values continues to influence modern values in a way that continues to be harmful then absolutely. Why wouldn't we? Do we refuse to condemn the actions and attitudes of the Nazis because antisemitism was popular at the time?

[powderjunkie]

I'm tired of this special treatment, too.

Why can't I have the same opportunity to live in poverty without access to clean drinking water?

Why can't I be so special that when I walk down the street, almost everyone else is immediately uncomfortable because of my appearance?

Why can't I operate under a framework of rules that makes it nearly impossible for any bank to do business with me? Not because my business plan isn't sound, but because the bank simply has no recourse to recover assets if they are on a reserve.

I'm so jealous that I don't have access to the same torn and tattered 'safety blanket' as indigenous people, who have clear won the race jackpot!!! I'd switch spots with any of them, any time, because damn it do they ever have it easy!!!

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Are you seriously arguing that stealing children from their parents and subjecting them to atrocities was the best course of action?

I didn't see any atrocities mentioned in the article (aside from the kidnapping). Do you have a source for the atrocities?

I thought this settlement was because the children being taken and raised in other homes?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

I didn't see any atrocities mentioned in the article (aside from the kidnapping). Do you have a source for the atrocities?

I thought this settlement was because the children being taken and raised in other homes?

My bad. Should have clarified I was speaking more in regards to residential schools on that front.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

It’s ironic you mention “3rd world countries” in your post as that is the reality for some First Nations especially those in the North. For you it would appear this is out of sight out of mind. But I can tell you from seeing it first hand that it’s god damn heart breaking to see people in those conditions. I truly hope some long term good comes out of this and helps people get a leg up.

The sad truth is that in 2017, people who live in isolated rural communities have little hope of good jobs and a high standard of living. The path to prosperity for young people today - Native and non-Native - is getting an education and moving to where the jobs are. I honestly can't see how government policy can change what is a basic economic fact of the modern world.

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Your posts reeks of ignorance. Tired of settlements and land claims? The monetary value of those are a drop in the bucket to the wealth that the colonized land provided settlers and their many generations after that.

It’s ironic you mention “3rd world countries” in your post as that is the reality for some First Nations especially those in the North. For you it would appear this is out of sight out of mind. But I can tell you from seeing it first hand that it’s god damn heart breaking to see people in those conditions. I truly hope some long term good comes out of this and helps people get a leg up.

I am not ignorant. This is a forum board. Each person is entitled to their opinion. Your post reeks of being a socialist and liberal. Let's pay everybody for all their problems since the beginning of human history. I prefer to take the view of the stronger survive and rule. There are winners and losers throughout history. Western civilization has been forged on this concept because of this - world wars, industrial innovation, research & technology, democracy.