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Old 10-17-2021, 01:27 PM   #21
dino7c
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
And the Oilers are the Oilers.

Talbot’s first year in Edmonton, he put up 2.55/.917 on a team that finished 25th in goals against.

Next year, they finished 8th (after playing Talbot 73 games) then right back to 25th (67 GP for Talbot) because they’re the friggen Oilers.

Cam Talbot is a better goalie than Jacob Markstrom.

Only a biased person would argue otherwise.
GM poll and Vezina voting say otherwise...I guess they are all biased

You obviously started this thread with an axe to grind


Enjoy being miserable
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:30 PM   #22
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Markstrom is not a problem. This team does not have #1D neither it has #1C and thus it's not going to compete. Rebuild. Period.
He’s way down the list of problems, that’s for sure.

And there’s something to be said for consistency in the crease.

But Talbot signed a 3 year $10.8M deal with Minnesota. Which means we could’ve had him back for something in that ballpark.

Treliving instead chose to give Markstrom twice the term and $25M more because…………

It’s decisions like these that cause this team to be capped out all the time. There’s no reason for it, other than they want some good press July 1.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:34 PM   #23
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He’s way down the list of problems, that’s for sure.

And there’s something to be said for consistency in the crease.

But Talbot signed a 3 year $10.8M deal with Minnesota. Which means we could’ve had him back for something in that ballpark.

Treliving instead chose to give Markstrom twice the term and $25M more because…………

It’s decisions like these that cause this team to be capped out all the time. There’s no reason for it, other than they want some good press July 1.
There is better way to find money. Especially with Vlader costing so little against the cap. If we were running Talbot/Vlader I’d be worried, and we’d end up having another 1b type guy for around 2.5-3.5 mill. And Markstrom is better.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:39 PM   #24
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Something tells me he wasn't this big of a Talbot booster when he was actually on the team

Also Tre didn't give it to him "just because"

Markstrom was ranked the #1 FA goalie above Talbot (biased media I guess) and had 7x5 and other offers on the table

Flames paid market price
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:46 PM   #25
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Yeah stats may say one thing, but my eye test says different.

We haven’t had a goalie this calm and positionally sound since Kipper.
He may not outright steal us games we have no right being in, but he never loses the game for us.

With Talbot/Rittich/Smith/ all the previous goalies you could just feel an easy one could go in at any time and a one goal lead would never be enough, or that we’d end up playing from behind because of a weak one.
I would say he lost the game for us last night. He needed to make that save on Puljuarvi. When that went it, the way it did 26 seconds after the Flames had got themselves back in the game, it was game set and match.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:47 PM   #26
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Markstrom is not a problem. This team does not have #1D neither it has #1C and thus it's not going to compete. Rebuild. Period.
Pretty simple when you break it down like that.
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Old 10-17-2021, 02:00 PM   #27
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Markstrom is not a problem. This team does not have #1D neither it has #1C and thus it's not going to compete. Rebuild. Period.
Rebuild or trade to get those pieces in place (Eichel, ____?) And build around them.

Doing anything else is simply wasting your time in no man's land of 12th-18th place.
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Old 10-17-2021, 02:04 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
GM poll and Vezina voting say otherwise...I guess they are all biased

You obviously started this thread with an axe to grind


Enjoy being miserable
First of all, We’re not on a jury. I’m not giving out a government contract. My “bias” is immaterial.

I looked at the numbers of our goalie, and of our previous goalies, and had thoughts.

Sue me.

Post script: the closest both Markstrom and Talbot have come to a Vezina is 4th. Unless you think one extra 10th place finish in tilts the scales the tune of 3 extra years and $25M?
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Old 10-17-2021, 02:42 PM   #29
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One game into the season, ONE game, on the road, after more than a week off, against a team that had already gotten their season under way, in which they didn't even play that bad, and we have:

1) an immediate bump of the reliving Needs To Go thread
2) Level of change to the Flames organization thread,
3) It Is Time rebuild thread, and
4) Jacob Markstrom, is he any good thread

...

how about we gear it down just a touch and maybe see how things go for a few games?
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Old 10-17-2021, 02:43 PM   #30
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Lmao, except when he literally carried the Canucks on his back. Not a difference maker...some of the posts in here are just reaching for negativity.
Literally?
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Old 10-17-2021, 02:48 PM   #31
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It seems to me that Markstrom has always been a bit of a streaky goalie. He'll have stretches of lights out play and stretches where he's below average resulting in an overall performance that's above average.

I agree with everyone saying "he's not the problem", but I also think he's not so great that he can obscure the other problems, as elite goalies seem to be able to do.
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Old 10-17-2021, 03:48 PM   #32
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Markstrom looked elite for the first month of last season. Ever since the head collision he's been average at best.

I hope he works out of it this season but if he continues at his current level of play I have to say I disagree with posters who say he's not the problem. I'd wager he is because we've spent $ on goaltending to be elite at the cost of spending it on other holes.
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Old 10-17-2021, 04:04 PM   #33
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Jakob Markstrom has had an above average save percentage twice in seasons with over 20 appearances

In 2019-20 his .918 compared favourably to the league average of .910
In 2018-19 his .912 was a bit above the .910 average

That is all. He had one pretty good season and Tre bought high, and paid him

He subsequently put up a below average season. Sure he had hot streaks and cold streaks. That doesn’t matter at the end of the day. It’s just the excuses for poor results.

He has lost a lot more than he has won, with a career 132-138-34

But there is just no arguing with some people. It is as effective as showing data to anti vaxxers

I do think this year he will be above average statistically due to Sutter

* I don’t think he was that bad last night either.

I just don’t think he is anything different than what his career statistics indicate
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Old 10-17-2021, 04:26 PM   #34
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Over the last four years Markstrom had played the 4th most games of any goaltender. He’s one of six guys who have played more than 200 games and sits about even with John Gibson and Freddy Andersen in both SV% and GAA (little bit better than both in GAA, 0.02% worse than Gibson in SV).

4/6 make more than Markstrom, 1 makes less (Andersen). He’s paid the way he’s paid because he’s consistent and gives you a chance to win playing a ton of games. I’m not sure what people expect for $6M. Markstrom is worth the money and does his job.
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Old 10-17-2021, 04:35 PM   #35
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Over the last four years Markstrom had played the 4th most games of any goaltender. He’s one of six guys who have played more than 200 games and sits about even with John Gibson and Freddy Andersen in both SV% and GAA (little bit better than both in GAA, 0.02% worse than Gibson in SV).

4/6 make more than Markstrom, 1 makes less (Andersen). He’s paid the way he’s paid because he’s consistent and gives you a chance to win playing a ton of games. I’m not sure what people expect for $6M. Markstrom is worth the money and does his job.

Me? For 6 M I would expect elite, not average. Cam Talbot is above average and considerably cheaper

You have cherry picked John Gibson’s last 2 years where Anaheim was a terrible team, btw. And included Markstrom’s 2 best seasons (relative to league average)

Teams like Chicago and Detroit won cups with guys like Crawford and Osgood and Pittsburgh with a variety because they understood that winning has more to do with the team in front of the goalie

This team shouldn’t have spent that money on this goalie IMO but it’s done, so no point belabouring it much more
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Old 10-17-2021, 04:36 PM   #36
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Markstrom looked elite for the first month of last season. Ever since the head collision he's been average at best.

I hope he works out of it this season but if he continues at his current level of play I have to say I disagree with posters who say he's not the problem. I'd wager he is because we've spent $ on goaltending to be elite at the cost of spending it on other holes.
Never should've let Markstrom play the Canucks through that whole three or four game set.

He was losing his cool and composure towards the end of it against his old team which culminated in the injury.

Taking one of those games off may have grounded him mentally so he wasn't flying out of his net and making himself vulnerable.
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Old 10-17-2021, 04:49 PM   #37
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Me? For 6 M I would expect elite, not average. Cam Talbot is above average and considerably cheaper

You have cherry picked John Gibson’s last 2 years where Anaheim was a terrible team, btw. And included Markstrom’s 2 best seasons (relative to league average)

Teams like Chicago and Detroit won cups with guys like Crawford and Osgood and Pittsburgh with a variety because they understood that winning has more to do with the team in front of the goalie

This team shouldn’t have spent that money on this goalie IMO but it’s done, so no point belabouring it much more
Cherry picked? I took the last four years. Every goaltender has things go well for them and poorly for them. Some have great seasons, some have bad ones. I went back four years because it’s the only stretch Markstrom has been a starter for, it wasn’t cherry picked to make one guy look better than the other, it’s just the last four years.

You may want to pay $6M for an elite goaltender, but that’s not what they sell for, so it really doesn’t matter what you expect from those dollars.

Talbot is above average? Dude has one season where he was notably better than Markstrom in the last four years. 1 season where they were similar, and 2 worse. And he also can’t handle the same workload. Who cares about Cam Talbot?
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Old 10-17-2021, 05:15 PM   #38
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Talbot has a career .915 to JMs .910

Oh, and he played here. So he is someone people are kind of familiar with, a bit relevant

Plus when talking $ vs performance, he is better

No use discussing further. You love Markstrom and we all hope it works out
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Old 10-17-2021, 05:18 PM   #39
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We just can't buy a break with goalies.

Even Talbot #### the bed against Dallas in the last couple games.

His overall body of work was solid but he struggled when it mattered most.

Markstrom stole a number of games for the Canucks in the bubble, against the defending champs, no less. So I still have faith in this guy. If he's 20th ranked in the regular season but ramps it up for the POs like he did for Vancouver then ill be more than okay with it.
If he's 20th ranked we probably aren't in the playoffs.
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Old 10-17-2021, 05:26 PM   #40
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Over the last four years Markstrom had played the 4th most games of any goaltender. He’s one of six guys who have played more than 200 games and sits about even with John Gibson and Freddy Andersen in both SV% and GAA (little bit better than both in GAA, 0.02% worse than Gibson in SV).

4/6 make more than Markstrom, 1 makes less (Andersen). He’s paid the way he’s paid because he’s consistent and gives you a chance to win playing a ton of games. I’m not sure what people expect for $6M. Markstrom is worth the money and does his job.
I don’t know about games played being the measuring stick for value.
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