Do you consider "homemaker" to be a job?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

There is a lot to unpack in this paragraph. I will say that Volunteers aren't the worst.

Volunteers that go into volunteering seeking adulation for their volunteering are the worst. But I have found those people are generally missing something in other parts of their life.

I know many people that volunteer in numerous different capacities and don't seek or accept accolades.

It's not volunteers in general that are the worst. It's the ones that have a regular schedule of volunteer hours. Like, just get a job at that point.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I am looking to get involved in some volunteer work myself, but I'm not sure what that looks like yet.

I want to volunteer for the Let's Clean Calgary thing in the spring where you go around with a garbage bag and pick up trash everywhere. I feel like that would be a good way of giving back for all the litter I throw everywhere during the year. (kidding of course; I hate litter and am happy to pitch in to clean up after the scrubs)

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

There is a lot to unpack in this paragraph. I will say that Volunteers aren't the worst.

Volunteers that go into volunteering seeking adulation for their volunteering are the worst. But I have found those people are generally missing something in other parts of their life.

I know many people that volunteer in numerous different capacities and don't seek or accept accolades.

I am looking to get involved in some volunteer work myself, but I'm not sure what that looks like yet.

Volunteers are also required so little Jimmy even has a hockey team to play on. I'm not necessarily talking soup kitchen stuff, I'm talking about the positions that need to be filled so your kids can join whatever extra-curricular they might be interested in. The hockey association doesn't run itself and requires a fair number of man hours put into it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

plenty of time to rest when you are dead.

Not resting is a good way to get to dead quicker.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I've had a housekeeper for over 11 years. It isn't a joint expense, I personally pay for their services even though both my wife and I get the shared benefit. Both my wife and I work, but given what each of us brings to the relationship in terms of resources -- I bring more income but have a higher time commitment to my job -- my wife fills a much higher proportion of homemaker tasks than I do when the housekeeper isn't around. But having the housekeeper reduces the overall load, so it's worth it. I consider it outsourcing.

There's nothing wrong with maintaining a set division of tasks, both of you just need to agree that the division itself is fair and that the underlying reasons are valid.

You realize half your money belongs to your wife right?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I hate to sound like a whiner, but sometimes I think the opposite is true. I have a good job that allows us to have one parent at home. With a well paying job comes high stress.

It feels like sometimes the societal expectation is the parent who worked all day should now come home and take over the homemaker job, so the homemaker from 8-4 can rest. Don't forget weekends.

When does the working parent rest?

Depends on the age of kids. If you have a few kids below 5 then that societal expectation is pretty reasonable. If the kids are school aged then I’d say those expectations are unreasonable.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Not resting is a good way to get to dead quicker.

Exactly. I think this is the crux of my point.

One adult working harder so one can work less is borderline sociopathic. I don't know how somebody who loves you could let you work your nutsack to the bone while they watch daytime TV and never get their blood pressure up.

[dino7c]

Also, if some of your jobs are so ####ty, stressful, and awful quit

do something else

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The only advice my dad ever said to me was: if you wan separate accounts, sleep in separate beds.

This takes this thread off topic, but I've always been a supporter of sleeping in different beds when it makes sense. I'm apparently a heavy snorer when I've had a lot of drinks that evening and because of this, I feel extremely guilty sharing a bed with my girlfriend and keeping her up all night. Some of my ex's have been okay with sleeping in separate beds when this happens but the majority have been completely against it, which I don't understand.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I always look at Wal-Mart greeters or old people working beyond when they want to be and wonder what their spending/savings/working habits were when younger.

I know several renowned, highly respected musicians that got too old to keep playing and have had to take up positions like these. They got to live an insanely exciting life/lifestyle doing what they loved the most, bringing incalculable joy to an incalculable amount of people.

Time catches up with everyone, but at least they're still out there among the people, rather than sitting in an ivory tower counting their beans and the days down to their next geriatric vacation, which is likely taking a plane somewhere to sit in a different ivory tower.

You're judging people harshly, simply because without any evidence or knowledge of the situation you're perceiving that their values aren't the same as yours, and thus inferior, and thus they're inferior. You really do seem like the kind of guy who's going to be on his deathbed and will indeed actually say "I wish I'd made more money."

I, for one, would happily spend my geriatric years greeting at Wal-Mart if I got to have the life, lifestyle, and spiritual impact some of my heroes have had. I don't think you understand the "work habits" they had when they were younger to be in a position to do this (practice practice practice, and mountains of courage and determination) and how they couldn't care less what a complete square thinks of them.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well that also encompasses almost anything that we pay people to do for us. You can cook for yourself, cut your own hair and rotate your own tires. Some people do some of those things, and some people do none of them but instead pay others to do them.

You pay $4200 a year for haircuts? And tire rotations? Dude, you’re getting ripped off.

Eating out is the only one remotely close to that and I bet $350 a month is still higher than many families spend in a typical month.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Exactly. I think this is the crux of my point.

One adult working harder so one can work less is borderline sociopathic. I don't know how somebody who loves you could let you work your nutsack to the bone while they watch daytime TV and never get their blood pressure up.

Maybe that's what you're missing... Daytime hours aren't for bon-bons and soap operas... They're for pilates and spin classes.

You want to talk about inequality and worthiness? I'm not worthy of my wife's ass

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by you&me

Are you kidding me? I ####ing love Sliver threads.

It's funny, because I think I almost unanimously disagree with every single opinion he holds, yet (I thinK) I'd still enjoy having a beer with him.

What amazes me most is how rattled people get from his threads. As if his opinions disrupt their lives to such an extent they can’t help but lash out and get angry.

It’s glorious to watch.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

You pay $4200 a year for haircuts? And tire rotations? Dude, you’re getting ripped off.

Eating out is the only one remotely close to that and I bet $350 a month is still higher than many families spend in a typical month.

I wasn't talking about the amount of money though (and I don't have someone to clean the house). I'm just saying that the idea of "you could do that cheaper on your own" applies to almost everything. I don't know how valid that is to make these kinds of decisions.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Exactly. I think this is the crux of my point.

One adult working harder so one can work less is borderline sociopathic. I don't know how somebody who loves you could let you work your nutsack to the bone while they watch daytime TV and never get their blood pressure up.

Well if someone had to work “harder” than they were before, I’d say that’s not an ideal situation.

If they worked the same, and one person worked less, and both had very limited chores to do “off hours” for the full time worker, then that sounds fantastic to me.

[woob]

Originally Posted by you&me

Are you kidding me? I ####ing love Sliver threads.

It's funny, because I think I almost unanimously disagree with every single opinion he holds, yet (I thinK) I'd still enjoy having a beer with him.

My comment does not equal not enjoying Sliver threads, I just know what I'm getting into when posting in one. Threads like this are highly entertaining and I'd mostly definitely enjoy having a beer with Sliver as well. Perhaps on a dog friendly patio somewhere.

Also, my comment about dishonest debate does not equal thinking Sliver is dishonest. When I have fun with my kids with a story about dinosaurs eating their halloween candy, it does not mean I'm an inherently dishonest person, I'm merely telling a tall tale for my own entertainment.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I know several renowned, highly respected musicians that got too old to keep playing and have had to take up positions like these. They got to live an insanely exciting life/lifestyle doing what they loved the most, bringing incalculable joy to an incalculable amount of people.

Time catches up with everyone, but at least they're still out there among the people, rather than sitting in an ivory tower counting their beans and the days down to their next geriatric vacation, which is likely taking a plane somewhere to sit in a different ivory tower.

You're judging people harshly, simply because without any evidence or knowledge of the situation you're perceiving that their values aren't the same as yours, and thus inferior, and thus they're inferior. You really do seem like the kind of guy who's going to be on his deathbed and will indeed actually say "I wish I'd made more money."

I, for one, would happily spend my geriatric years greeting at Wal-Mart if I got to have the life, lifestyle, and spiritual impact some of my heroes have had. I don't think you understand the "work habits" they had when they were younger to be in a position to do this (practice practice practice, and mountains of courage and determination) and how they couldn't care less what a complete square thinks of them.

I don't perceive their value as being less than mine. That's crazy. I just look at somebody like a 75-year-old Walmart greeter and see my own personal nightmare. Same way I could look at somebody picking through a dump in a slum in India. Both are human and have lives of equal value to my own. Money doesn't give an individual more value as a human being. Doesn't mean I can't look at different life outcomes and pick what looks more appealing to me.

Also, I'm not a money-motivated person in the way you're insinuating. An example would be Friday afternoons off at my company. I mean, I could just not come in on Friday afternoons or Fridays at all if I wanted, but if I'm going to take a benefit like that I'm going to extend it to my people as well because I'm not better or more deserving than they are. The company makes a little less money because of this decision. Oh well. I'd rather us all have more meaningful lives with the people we love.

I was just talking to my kids yesterday about something with a similar theme. My house is back into wanting a cat. I don't want one, but I'm willing to allow it in the house if I don't ever have to lift a finger to do any work ever with it as long as it lives. My wife doesn't want to be the only one looking after the cat, so she isn't too enthused about my take. The kids keep promising they will take the cat with them when they move out in ~five years. I won't let them do that, though, because I don't think their future selves should be beholden to a promise their teenaged selves made. What if they don't want the cat when they move out? It's the same with somebody who sacrifices their future years for better present years. I don't know what 75-year-old Sliver would think of being a Walmart greeter, but 44 year-old Sliver isn't going to put 75-year-old Sliver in the position of having to do that. I think you need to treat your older self with respect enough to plan your best for the most opportunity for your future self.

I appreciate that you are planning differently for your future self. That's okay. I do think it's less about hoarding money than you're making it seem, though, and I don't think I'm nearly as rich as you may think. I just want to be able to retire comfortably and help my kids. That's the goal of most people I know.

Another thing...just because somebody works a day job doesn't mean they aren't enjoying life along the way. I'm working 36 hours per week right now. Hardly a workaholic lol.

Also, I don't really know many musicians, but I would be surprised if at least some of them that are living out their golden years in poverty weren't hoping to hit it big at some point in their younger years. Trying to make it in the entertainment industry with no back-up plan is a big gamble.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The company ( household?) makes a little less money because of this decision. Oh well. I'd rather us all have more meaningful lives with the people we love.
.

We’re almost there Sliver. More similar in opinion on this topic than I thought.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Slava

I wasn't talking about the amount of money though (and I don't have someone to clean the house). I'm just saying that the idea of "you could do that cheaper on your own" applies to almost everything. I don't know how valid that is to make these kinds of decisions.

No, I know, I was just joking around. For $4200 you’d better have damn fine hair. Lol

It’s interesting what are considered luxuries and necessities but going to a hairdresser (even if the walk in only kind), eating out every once in a while (even if at a mid level chain) and getting tires swapped all seem very common for most households. Not even just most, probably almost all, a super high percentage.

Having a housekeeper is probably a luxury for 95% of middle class families.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by stone hands

It's not really nothing, its 4,200 dollars a year or 42,000 dollars a decade to pay someone something you can do yourself, or rather most people have to do it themselves because it's an extravagant expense for the lazy

This isn't really an accurate portrayal of this. What is your time worth? My cleaner does in 2 hours what would take me 3 or 4 and I pay them about the same as Sliver.

So me doing that is actually costing me money based on how I value my time.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Weitz

This isn't really an accurate portrayal of this. What is your time worth? My cleaner does in 2 hours what would take me 3 or 4 and I pay them about the same as Sliver.

So me doing that is actually costing me money based on how I value my time.

But that’s not really how it works. Your time has no tangible monetary value. You are out real money by paying for a cleaner.

Otherwise we should all have 24/7 personal care workers looking after our every need. Then we’d have unlimited free time, think of how much that’s worth!