The Outback by a landslide. Subarus can have issues with oil consumption but overall they can be pretty reliable. Volvos are grouped with Jaguar and Land Rover as least reliable automobiles available and will be more expensive to maintain. Their 3 year reliability is very poor;
Just wondering what people's opinions are on which would be a better buy in terms of reliability and cost of ownership: 2016 Volvo V60 vs 2016 Subaru Outback. My preference is the Volvo as it is sportier, nicer looking and more fun to drive but I feel the maintenance will be more expensive. Thoughts?
I’m sure the Volvo will have more maintenance but they are still reliable vehicles. And the interior is SO much more stylish and comfy than the Subie. I’d take the Volvo for the day to day benefit of enjoying the interior.
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I imagine a Subaru would be ultimately more reliable, but anecdotally, we currently have a Volvo XC70 (and previously had a V50) and both have been really solid and reliable cars without any real issues outside of maintenance items. My parents too have a Volvo, and my brother has 2...and neither has complained either. They are well built cars, and the seats alone are worth it for most.
I don't see them being anywhere close to being as unreliable as a Land Rover or Jag. Most of the complaints in these new ownership surveys are about infotainment systems and usage of gadgets, so the less of those you get the more "reliable" your car will be.
I would be more interested in the long term cost of the repairs. Having a few minor issues when it's new is one thing. Having a transmission go at 150,000 km would be something else.
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I would be more interested in the long term cost of the repairs. Having a few minor issues when it's new is one thing. Having a transmission go at 150,000 km would be something else.
Low reliability ratings don't mean that every single vehicle off the assembly line is going to be a lemon. Older Volvos had a reputation of good reliability but so did Honda. A Volvo is going to cost in the range of a German luxury car to maintain while a Subaru is going to be more inline with other Japanese brands.
I'm not clear if Chinese ownership has had any influence on reliability as it sounds like they have been pretty hands off for the most part. However the Chinese owners want to merge Volvo with Geely which has not been well received in Sweden where there are fears of national security concerns and like a lot of European countries relations are strained with China in general so it will be interesting to see where things go with this brand.
Keep in mind these JD reliability surveys are pretty suspect, and don't take into account the severity of the issue, just the amount of complaints. A transmission issue is treated the same way as having issues syncing your phone.
Surprised to see Honda and Acura so low on the reliability scale. Would've thought they would be in the top 5.
Acura just had a big redesign and a lot of technology imbeciles have issues with the infotainment and JD Power records consumer reports of "problems" instead of using a better way to get their data. Not to mention they'll also be picking up things that buyers would realize in the dealership before even signing the paperwork, but it would still get captured as a problem in the survey.
It would be interesting if they published all the complaints they used to get to their numbers. I'd almost guarantee that a good number of the Acrua ones are a variation of "I don't like using a touch pad" and "my car doesn't have Android Auto even though I knew this before I bought it".
Last edited by llwhiteoutll; 07-06-2020 at 10:16 AM.
Keep in mind these JD reliability surveys are pretty suspect, and don't take into account the severity of the issue, just the amount of complaints. A transmission issue is treated the same way as having issues syncing your phone.
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Who is JD Powa?
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Keep in mind these JD reliability surveys are pretty suspect, and don't take into account the severity of the issue, just the amount of complaints. A transmission issue is treated the same way as having issues syncing your phone.
In that case I would expect the total number of complaints to rise as more cars come with navigation, synching, apps, infotainment etc as some people simply wont know how to use them. Too bad they can't filter out issues like this most would consider trivial. I couldn't care less about issues with how to synch phone/music but I care 100x more about a transmission issue
In that case I would expect the total number of complaints to rise as more cars come with navigation, synching, apps, infotainment etc as some people simply wont know how to use them. Too bad they can't filter out issues like this most would consider trivial. I couldn't care less about issues with how to synch phone/music but I care 100x more about a transmission issue
This is exactly the case, which is compounded by the fact that buyers of cars that typically have these 'new' features are from higher end brands, where the expectations are higher and complaints may be more forthcoming.
Keep in mind these JD reliability surveys are pretty suspect, and don't take into account the severity of the issue, just the amount of complaints. A transmission issue is treated the same way as having issues syncing your phone.
I don't think they are suspect at all as they are owner surveys of sufficient sample size. People that don't accept CR and JD power results are typically those that can't accept that their anecdotal evidence is nothing more than that. Also when both JD Power and CR says Honda is slipping maybe it's because it's true;
If it wasn't for the oil consumption our Outback would be one of the better vehicles we've owned.
Is that just one one specific generation of engines? Every time Subaru comes up you mention it, but for all the people I know with Subies, only one has the oil issue, and it's on an older 2012 or something that had a specific problem with it. I never add oil between oil changes in ours. I certainly don't think it is a problem with all their vehicles.
Is that just one one specific generation of engines? Every time Subaru comes up you mention it, but for all the people I know with Subies, only one has the oil issue, and it's on an older 2012 or something that had a specific problem with it. I never add oil between oil changes in ours. I certainly don't think it is a problem with all their vehicles.
It's been an issue with FA engines and 3.6. It's all there in the class action lawsuit if you google it. Worst part for me is that I had an STI at the time and my boss (owned a Rideline and was a Honda person) asked me about Subaru and I told him they were great so he bought his wife a 2014 Forester with a FA25 and of course his had bad oil consumption to the point he got rid of it for a new CR-V. I don't think he will be asking me for car advice anymore ha ha ha.
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I don't think they are suspect at all as they are owner surveys of sufficient sample size. People that don't accept CR and JD power results are typically those that can't accept that their anecdotal evidence is nothing more than that.
The issue with JD Power is that they are a for-profit company, and the rankings are directly tied to services they sell to the car manufacturers. Apart from the awards (which they sell the rights to advertise with) they also offer consulting services for manufacturers to raise their scores. If that's not a conflict of interest, I don't know what is.
Apart from the results being tied to their business prospects, the surveys themselves also aren't particularly deep or illuminating to a consumer. They track problems per manufacturer, but like I said, a "problem" could be a transmission needing to be replaced, or a cracked cupholder. They don't release that info. A weighted system would be much more beneficial for a consumer because not all problems are the same.
That is how you get results like this, where Dodge and Chevy are in the top 3.
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I have no huge problems with Consumer Reports. Most publications are for-profits that have their cars lent to them (which are not random cars of the dealer lot), and then sell advertising to the very manufacturers they supposedly are impartial to. CR, on the other hand, is a nonprofit and buy the cars that they test from dealers. The only real issue there might be the sample size, and the fact they only survey CR readers, not the general public... so you may not get much insight into a particular model if it's not popular with CR's demographic. They may not always be enthusiasts, but they at least have some valid testing protocols.
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I think those results you posted are of an initial 90 day quality survey which to me seems totally plausible as purchasers of lower end vehicles seeking disposable transportation tend to pay less attention to details (usually just happy to get credit) as buyers of premium vehicle will be paying much more attention to paint, panel gaps, etc. It's pretty well a useless survey if you are interested in long term quality but I assume it was made just because more surveys equals more income. Not everyone is a cynic as being for-profit does not mean corrupt as plenty of companies are ethical and I've seen nothing from JD power that indicates they are in the pocket of the Koreans or GM. As long as they are simply tabulating surveys I don't see how it matters if they are for profit or not and their results are typically in the same ballpark as CR. I personally don't care for CR's actual car reviews themselves as they will trash good vehicles for having a lack of cup holders or difficult infotainment systems and totally miss the point on most performance vehicles but their long term reliability rankings are done similarly to JD power and a good reference.
