Didn’t Israel drop a 13 storey residential building which led to the rockets being launched from Hamas?
Trudeau is ####ing useless.
At least he also specifically mentioned the attack at the mosque by Israel and the forced evictions, but yeah, I get your point that he didn't exactly come out hyper strong in his comments.
At least he also specifically mentioned the attack at the mosque by Israel and the forced evictions, but yeah, I get your point that he didn't exactly come out hyper strong in his comments.
At least I can thank you for an accurate title.
Last edited by Scroopy Noopers; 05-12-2021 at 01:53 PM.
It's sad to say but this 'escalation' was inevitable. The Netanyahu government has continued to encourage the so-called Settlers to displace Palestinians from their homes, some of which their families have occupied for decades.
I had the displeasure to have a conversation with one of these Settlers a couple of years ago and it was eye-opening. She was originally Russian but has lived in Israel for about 40 years. She and her family moved into one of the Settlements about 5 years ago. She described how her home is near a Palestinian village and claims that there are no tensions between the groups. She also went on to explain to me how Muslim's are lazy and just want handouts. The conversation ended shortly after that when I got up and started to leave. At that point, she desperately tried to tell me that she wasn't a racist. I saw her one time after that but completely ignored her.
It's particularly frustrating because most people that are directly affected by this aren't Hamas nor Settlers. Most of them are Israeli's and Palestinians who are just trying to get by. Unfortunately, on the Israeli side you have a warhawk, manifest-destiny believer in Netanyahu backed by, what amounts to, Jewish fascists in the Knesset that is seemingly perpetually in flux and ultimately ruled but fringe elements and the financial support of American Evangelicals desperate for the end times to start already.
On the other side, you have Hamas terrorists who are not particularly interested in the well-being of Palestinians but rather the accumulation of power, fortune and influence. They will actively encourage the deaths of their people to better their positions of power.
Meanwhile, the world stands by because of how it impacts their political situation at home.
I don't know the answer to this but it seems to me a good place to start would be to make the Settlements illegal and hand over control of Gaza and probably the West Bank to the UN (or some more effective equivalent). They may want to consider even making Jerusalem and independent city-state with a representative democracy.
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I’ve always had a hard time understanding this conflict (because it doesn’t directly affect me and I hadn’t put in the effort to understand it. But I watched this video the other day as I was looking for some sort of “recap” to get at least a baseline understanding of where this began:
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To begin with, that CTV article with a brief summary of the most recent 75-year conflict is a fairly one-sided piece, IMHO.
As a full disclaimer, I am in general a supporter of Israel's right to exist.
However, right now, the evictions are a problem and should never have been started. I'd love to know the reasoning behind it (apart from aggression and land-grabbing).
On the other hand, as bad as Israel's actions are (i.e. evictions, busting up the sit-in at Al-Aqsa with riot police), and I am against them, what did Hamas and friends think the response was going to be when they sent hundreds of rockets towards Tel Aviv?
It's sad to say but this 'escalation' was inevitable. The Netanyahu government has continued to encourage the so-called Settlers to displace Palestinians from their homes, some of which their families have occupied for decades.
I had the displeasure to have a conversation with one of these Settlers a couple of years ago and it was eye-opening. She was originally Russian but has lived in Israel for about 40 years. She and her family moved into one of the Settlements about 5 years ago. She described how her home is near a Palestinian village and claims that there are no tensions between the groups. She also went on to explain to me how Muslim's are lazy and just want handouts. The conversation ended shortly after that when I got up and started to leave. At that point, she desperately tried to tell me that she wasn't a racist. I saw her one time after that but completely ignored her.
It's particularly frustrating because most people that are directly affected by this aren't Hamas nor Settlers. Most of them are Israeli's and Palestinians who are just trying to get by. Unfortunately, on the Israeli side you have a warhawk, manifest-destiny believer in Netanyahu backed by, what amounts to, Jewish fascists in the Knesset that is seemingly perpetually in flux and ultimately ruled but fringe elements and the financial support of American Evangelicals desperate for the end times to start already.
On the other side, you have Hamas terrorists who are not particularly interested in the well-being of Palestinians but rather the accumulation of power, fortune and influence. They will actively encourage the deaths of their people to better their positions of power.
Meanwhile, the world stands by because of how it impacts their political situation at home.
I don't know the answer to this but it seems to me a good place to start would be to make the Settlements illegal and hand over control of Gaza and probably the West Bank to the UN (or some more effective equivalent). They may want to consider even making Jerusalem and independent city-state with a representative democracy.
On a matter of principle, I support Israel. I can even support that sometimes they need to be aggressive on certain security issues. They have a situation that is very hard for many people in the West to understand. It is so hard to get behind their government and some of the things they do though.
They are simultaneously a bastion for liberalism in a region that has very little of that, but routinely have a government that promotes far-right extremist behaviours. I think one thing many people don't realize is how fragmented and diverse opinions and outlooks are in Israel, and in a democratic system, it makes it possible for a minority faction to control things. We see it in Canada to a degree when minority governments have way more proportional power than they deserve, but Israel is a whole new ball game when it comes to that.
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The Israeli government (led by Netanyahu) and the rising far-right in that country are no better than the terrorists of Hamas. If anything, they're worse. They're a more powerful and organized version. The far right, which has gained power recently, is everything you imagine it to be. Racist, homophobic, pro-segregation, pro-violence.
Ethnic cleansing, forced evictions and territory grabs, war crimes, violent repression of protests, arresting and physically abusing children, bombing and killing civilians. These are actions you expect of a terrorist group, not of a country simply defending itself from terrorists.
I have nothing but sympathy for the many innocent Palestinian and Israeli people caught in the middle of this.
I don't know why the "left" continues to defend Israel as somehow innocent or the victim in this.
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To begin with, that CTV article with a brief summary of the most recent 75-year conflict is a fairly one-sided piece, IMHO.
As a full disclaimer, I am in general a supporter of Israel's right to exist.
However, right now, the evictions are a problem and should never have been started. I'd love to know the reasoning behind it (apart from aggression and land-grabbing).
On the other hand, as bad as Israel's actions are (i.e. evictions, busting up the sit-in at Al-Aqsa with riot police), and I am against them, what did Hamas and friends think the response was going to be when they sent hundreds of rockets towards Tel Aviv?
Not sure how anybody wins here...
When you strip a person of everything, from possessions to the simple dignity of life, what do you leave them? The only option for a people so oppressed is either violence or let themselves be destroyed.
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When you strip a person of everything, from possessions to the simple dignity of life, what do you leave them? The only option for a people so oppressed is either violence or let themselves be destroyed.
While I generally agree with that statement, I don't see Hamas as being "the people" or even representing the Palestinian people at all.
They're generally a bunch of self-serving opportunists and politicians. If they cared about the people they would do a much better job of providing for them (this includes security, and a passport via a statehood).
I'd love to know which percentage of foreign aid aimed at going to the people of Palestine that actually need it actually gets to them, and which percentage gets redirected into building tunnels used for sneak attacks into Israel (clearly not defensive in nature) and building the rockets that they so casually lob into Israeli towns and cities. I mean, none of those things are cheap.... So it begs the question, anyway.
With all that said though, it's a sad state of affairs over there right now. I have an immense amount of empathy for the everyday people that are caught up in this power-play between Netanyahu and Hamas, because at the end of the day, sadly they both needed this conflict to re-assert themselves.
T
However, right now, the evictions are a problem and should never have been started. I'd love to know the reasoning behind it (apart from aggression and land-grabbing).
..
The reasoning behind the eviction is that the land was owned by Jews who were forcibly evicted when Jordan invaded the area in 1949. All Jews were dispelled from the West Bank and Gaza Strip at that point, and Arabs were settled on the land. These Arabs were not typically given actual land rights by the Jordanian government but instead "leases". Over time their populations expanded and they built structure on the land.
Israel gained legal authority over the land in 1967. Israel allows any Israeli citizen, either Arab or Jew, with a valid land claim to bring it before the courts. The courts generally uphold both the land rights and the leases. So for many decades you have Palestinians technically leasing land from the Jewish owners. In Shaikh Jarrah, the leases that the Arab residents have recently expired, and the actual owners are now claiming the land.
There are all sorts of other issues there, as Arabs often did not have proper title, as the Ottoman system was more of a serf type system with the Arab population paying tribute to the Ottoman land owners. Then there's other questions about whether Arabs are given proper rights under the Israeli justice system.
It's more complicated than just evicting Arabs for Jewish settlers though.
Escalating Tensions in Palestinian Territories
