Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Amen. The absolute stupidity of the BC position and those that supported it on TMX had and has me depressed on the future of Canada. Somehow they favored a situation where the Lower mainland would supply their own consumption with tankers of jet fuel and gasoline refined at Cherry Point, Washington instead of allowing export tankers and supplying their own market with domestic product from TMX. Basically one way or another tankers are in and out of that harbor, but, hey let's pick the option to pay higher prices and deny any domestic companies from capturing that value chain.

Does BC have the capacity/infrastructure to refine oil sands oil?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Firebot

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/wev...tal-nurses-say



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...the%20province.



The only ones making stuff up are socialist apologists in full denial of reality and would rather throw BC nurses wellbeing under the bus than concede on ideology about drug decriminalization and pat themselves on the back (which is especially sad considering what they dealt with during the pandemic situation)

How is this ideologic mentality any different than the freedumb convoy / vaccine deniers?

Pharmacist here! The claim that she was told not to breastfeed her child due to being exposed to second hand fentanyl smoke seems extreeeeemely dubious.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Pharmacist here! The claim that she was told not to breastfeed her child due to being exposed to second hand fentanyl smoke seems extreeeeemely dubious.

The article is an opinion piece being written by a we-can-win-the-war-on-drugs psychopath from Toronto.


I suspect everything that man just wrote outside of the quotes from union officials is probably playing in the gray area of being entirely unable to be corroborated while being as sensationalist as humanly possible with out ever actually having set foot in a BC hospital.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Pharmacist here! The claim that she was told not to breastfeed her child due to being exposed to second hand fentanyl smoke seems extreeeeemely dubious.

Most of that article comes off that way. Which makes sense, as it's the National Post and the author is full of laughable takes.

I'm going to have to ask my friends who work at several Vancouver Island hospitals why they've never mentioned free for all meth/fentanyl smoking throughout the hospital, drug dealers working out of hospital hallways, drug addicts "beating the sh-t out of elderly and disabled patients", knife and axe wielding drug addicted patients who weren't dealt with by security/police, and nurses routinely and repeatedly getting assaulted by drug addicts.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Most of that article comes off that way. Which makes sense, as it's the National Post and the author is full of laughable takes.

I'm going to have to ask my friends who work at several Vancouver Island hospitals why they've never mentioned free for all meth/fentanyl smoking throughout the hospital, drug dealers working out of hospital hallways, drug addicts "beating the sh-t out of elderly and disabled patients", knife and axe wielding drug addicted patients who weren't dealt with by security/police, and nurses routinely and repeatedly getting assaulted by drug addicts.

My wife is a nurse here in BC and has never seen any of it

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Does BC have the capacity/infrastructure to refine oil sands oil?

No, not really. The Parkland Refinery in Burnaby produces like 20-30% of Greater Vancouver supply. As far as the other 70-80% for supply: Take your pick, buy gasoline, Jet fuel from Canada refined in Edmonton and transported via TransMountain or buy it from tankers coming up from Washington State.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

My wife is a nurse here in BC and has never seen any of it

Yeah, I have a plethora of nurse friends here and have never heard a single word about it. Not saying it isn't happening, but I feel like the frequency of incidents is being exaggerated.

The article I think also mentions St. Paul's which is a ridiculous inclusion considering that St. Paul's serves as a detox and treatment centre. People using substances in that type environment isn't really out of the norm.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

No, not really. As far as domestic supply goes: Take your pick, buy gasoline, Jet fuel from Canadian companies refined in Edmonton and transported via TransMountain or buy it from tankers coming up from Washington State.

I don't really have a problem with TMX, but I was under the impression it only transported the raw materials and still had to be refined on the other end.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't really have a problem with TMX, but I was under the impression it only transported the raw materials and still had to be refined on the other end.

https://www.transmountain.com/product

The Trans Mountain Pipeline transports crude oil, semi-refined and refined products in a series in the same pipeline. This process is known as “batching”. Think of it as a “batch train,” with one product following another product through the pipeline during a specific time period. It’s like a series of rail cars carrying different products moving in a sequence along the 1,150-kilometre pipeline.

Trans Mountain is the only pipeline in North America that carries both refined product and crude oil in batches.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, I have a plethora of nurse friends here and have never heard a single word about it. Not saying it isn't happening, but I feel like the frequency of incidents is being exaggerated.

The article I think also mentions St. Paul's which is a ridiculous inclusion considering that St. Paul's serves as a detox and treatment centre. People using substances in that type environment isn't really out of the norm.

These are all taking the situation at St. Paul's and applying it to every hospital in major metro centers.

What is happening in St Paul's is a problem. I go there on a regular basis for my heart arrhythmia (Once a month or so, sometimes twice). I've had to step over people who are just having a nice little meth nap in the middle of the hall. I have seen someone doing meth while sitting in the chairs right at the main entrance, with the poor woman handing out masks frantically trying to get security to come get them and then still having him be there and a different woman handing out masks when on my way out after my heart echo was done (half an hour roughly), though he had stopped smoking.

That hospital's age and function play a very large role in why it is having issues. It was never designed with what it is now required to do in mind (What hospital originally opened in the 1890s was?). There also just isn't enough staff to keep the addicts from getting themselves in trouble. Never mind the ones not in the hospital for treatment that just show up looking for their buddy who they know is here somewhere! Even when he's not...

It's unfortunately easy political points for idiots like Adam Zivo here, while not understanding the nuance of why it's happening nor offering solutions on what else that can be done to fix it other than "DRUGS ARE BAD!"

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

https://www.transmountain.com/product

The expansion won't carry refined products.

Although by removing light/heavy crude batches from the original line it creates more capacity for refined product on that system.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Does BC have the capacity/infrastructure to refine oil sands oil?

There is no chance BC would ever do the dirty work that’s needed. That’s for Alberta to do so then the folks in Bc can throw stones, hold up projects, look down their noses and hate Alberta for contributing to climate change (but then use copious amounts of oil and gas the next day). It’s just all theatre.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

The expansion won't carry refined products.

Although by removing light/heavy crude batches from the original line it creates more capacity for refined product on that system.

Correct.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Left leaning? I think you can do a little better than that Coffee. But if you can’t, and if that was directed at me please point out specifically what views I have that you think are wrong and why.

I posted the link because I thought it was relevant news considering there’s a lot of people who claimed that it would never get built. I don’t disagree that the path here was far from ideal, does that make you left leaning too? (Whatever you define left leaning as)



Yup. Is your solution to allow government and private businesses to overrule the courts?



Yes it took almost twice as long as Kinder Morgan had predicted. Was their estimated timeline reasonable given the long-standing legal/land issues that would be a major factor in this project?



Hopefully one day you’ll be as passionately on board with advocating for addressing all of the other factors that are having a far greater impact on the standard of living in this country that you generally(based on your posting history) don’t appear to care much about unless you’re bringing it up to defend O&G or blame Trudeau for something.

If you ever do get there my only hope is that you’ll do a better job of advocating for addressing those issues than making arguments like a pipeline getting delayed is the reason why groceries and housing are becoming too expensive.



You do realize we will recoup the costs for this one through the sale, long term royalties and tax revenue generated by this pipeline right? I don’t think you can possibly make an economic argument for how that is the worse of the 2 outcomes.



I, and I think most people as well, would agree that the issues that created delays need to be addressed but we’re not going to do so by distracting people from what those issues actually are. It isn’t going to matter what the regulatory framework looks like so long as the areas where a project is going are ones that the courts won’t allow those regulations to be applied to by the government. How you have spent so many years complaining about this and haven’t figured that out yet is beyond me.

We agree on more than you probably think but man oh man do you ever seem to go out of your way to obfuscate a lot of issues.

Must be an up or down leaning people thing to do.

I don’t have time or energy to do the quote thing, but I’ll try to hit your points. Do I think you’re left leaning? Generally yes and I basically form that opinion from your never ending staunch defence of unions. Typically people who support or are super into unions are left leaning. If that is an unfair characterization than I apologize, as I understand a political stance can be nuanced like is mentioned in the other thread. As well, you say point out where you are wrong. I definitely do not mean to imply (generally, like, outside of this one particular issue) that left leaning people are “wrong” and in fact often they are right about several topics. It’s why I come to CP despite the echo chamber because my job day in and day out is an echo chamber on the other side.

I appreciate you posting the link and I was not directing my post to you necessarily however I have definitely had discussions about oil and gas with many people that tend to be left leaning (most of my closest friends are left leaning actually) and I very frequently hear whenever I rant about JT (as you point out I do it a lot but it’s only because there’s just… so… much… to bitch about) I always get the “well they bought the TMX pipeline! They can’t hate oil and gas that much!” Like BS, #### that. That’s like saying Danielle Smith still signed off on the health care budget so look at how supportive she is of that segment!

In some very special and specific circumstances such as vital infrastructure for energy security and the economy of the nation then yes I believe government and businesses should be allowed to overrule regulations or court rulings. I believe personally that’s how other countries are able to get #### done and sometimes it is what is required. I think that polling the audience of 40 million people will get you 40 million different opinions; 20 million of which will deny, well, just about ####ing everything. Canada has decided to just let small interest groups leverage courts to stop or stumble criticism infrastructure projects. The government of Canada a) does have the ability to create new laws (yes they may be court challenged possibly but there are many other pressure points the government can use in its authority and powers to get #### done. For example, funding. Carrots and sticks, etc. b) does have the ability to force through special projects that are deemed vital to the health and stability of the nation and IMO this project actually does fit that scope.

Recouping $30B? You should run some econs on pipe projects. I suppose it’s possible if we haven’t totally shut down growth in oil which we’re trying desperately to do that this could pay out in 50 years, sure. Or what fees do you think are reasonable to ship oil with? I’m being sarcastic but if the project was launched with a capital cost of 5,4B then 30B with a delay of project startup of 4.5 yrs could be pretty challenging to economics- just a hunch.

Glad we agree on this one and I do agree with you that we do agree on more than you or I prob think, I just don’t really reply to you if I agree with you on something. I can tell you I do respect your opinion.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Firebot

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/wev...tal-nurses-say

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...the%20province.

The only ones making stuff up are socialist apologists in full denial of reality and would rather throw BC nurses wellbeing under the bus than concede on ideology about drug decriminalization and pat themselves on the back (which is especially sad considering what they dealt with during the pandemic situation)

So you’re trading liberal apologist for socialist apologist? At the very least socialist technically isn’t a political party so I guess people won’t be able to continue pointing out the hypocrisy when someone who constantly accuses posters of being partisan makes partisan attacks. Or at least not nearly as often.

Even that article shows the statement that meth and crack are legally being smoked in hospitals to not be true. It’s clearly an enforcement issue. Even if moneyguy misquoted that part I would still stand by my statement that Pierre makes things up at times, as do many of his cronies.

IMO it’s pretty disappointing to see someone try and use worker safety as a means to try and score political points for a politician like Pierre whose overall actions suggest he doesn’t give a rats ass about worker safety.

How is this ideologic mentality any different than the freedumb convoy / vaccine deniers?

How does your imaginary scenario mentality differ from their mentality? One is real(albeit debatable positions) and the other is completely imaginary.

Kind of odd that you’d make a comment implying that a group of people whom the overwhelming majority of are likely voting for the guy you can’t stop cheerleading for aren’t intelligent. Some might call it a whacko approach but I’m sticking with odd.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

IMO it’s pretty disappointing to see someone try and use worker safety as a means to try and score political points for a politician like Pierre whose overall actions suggest he doesn’t give a rats ass about worker safety.

Can you provide a source that states Pierre doesn’t give a rats ass about worker safety? I haven’t heard that one yet.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Can you provide a source that states Pierre doesn’t give a rats ass about worker safety? I haven’t heard that one yet.

You’re more than welcome to google his party’s official policy declaration and his own lengthy history on this subject but simply put, you’d have a very difficult time arguing that someone who is pro “right to work” laws gives a rats ass about worker safety. But if you think you’re up to the task by all means give it a shot.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

You’re more than welcome to google his party’s official policy declaration and his own lengthy history on this subject but simply put, you’d have a very difficult time arguing that someone who is pro “right to work” laws gives a rats ass about worker safety. But if you think you’re up to the task by all means give it a shot.

So you have nothing. Thats fine.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I don’t have time or energy to do the quote thing, but I’ll try to hit your points. Do I think you’re left leaning? Generally yes and I basically form that opinion from your never ending staunch defence of unions. Typically people who support or are super into unions are left leaning. If that is an unfair characterization than I apologize, as I understand a political stance can be nuanced like is mentioned in the other thread. As well, you say point out where you are wrong. I definitely do not mean to imply (generally, like, outside of this one particular issue) that left leaning people are “wrong” and in fact often they are right about several topics. It’s why I come to CP despite the echo chamber because my job day in and day out is an echo chamber on the other side.

I appreciate you posting the link and I was not directing my post to you necessarily however I have definitely had discussions about oil and gas with many people that tend to be left leaning (most of my closest friends are left leaning actually) and I very frequently hear whenever I rant about JT (as you point out I do it a lot but it’s only because there’s just… so… much… to bitch about) I always get the “well they bought the TMX pipeline! They can’t hate oil and gas that much!” Like BS, #### that. That’s like saying Danielle Smith still signed off on the health care budget so look at how supportive she is of that segment!

In some very special and specific circumstances such as vital infrastructure for energy security and the economy of the nation then yes I believe government and businesses should be allowed to overrule regulations or court rulings. I believe personally that’s how other countries are able to get #### done and sometimes it is what is required. I think that polling the audience of 40 million people will get you 40 million different opinions; 20 million of which will deny, well, just about ####ing everything. Canada has decided to just let small interest groups leverage courts to stop or stumble criticism infrastructure projects. The government of Canada a) does have the ability to create new laws (yes they may be court challenged possibly but there are many other pressure points the government can use in its authority and powers to get #### done. For example, funding. Carrots and sticks, etc. b) does have the ability to force through special projects that are deemed vital to the health and stability of the nation and IMO this project actually does fit that scope.

Recouping $30B? You should run some econs on pipe projects. I suppose it’s possible if we haven’t totally shut down growth in oil which we’re trying desperately to do that this could pay out in 50 years, sure. Or what fees do you think are reasonable to ship oil with? I’m being sarcastic but if the project was launched with a capital cost of 5,4B then 30B with a delay of project startup of 4.5 yrs could be pretty challenging to economics- just a hunch.

Glad we agree on this one and I do agree with you that we do agree on more than you or I prob think, I just don’t really reply to you if I agree with you on something. I can tell you I do respect your opinion.

The tolls are set to largely recoup the cost and make it an economic investment so it’s the shippers who are seeing increased tolls. With he increase costs it’s basically the same cost to ship from Edmonton to Burnaby in TMX as its is from Edmonton to the gulf coast via Enbridge, which is crazy if you think about that. Now, the government has to sell this pipeline, actually they need to sell this company. There is no consortium out there that is going to pay the type of capital to acquire it at book value. Some expect the government will take a big write down, make a grand gesture of economic reconciliation and offload this thing at a discount. What will be I think the next step is a refilling of tolls on the new pipeline that will be reflective of the transaction price.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So you have nothing. Thats fine.

I like that this line has become your schtick but he does have his opinion, which is what he stated it was, and pointed you to what it was based on.