Jordan Peterson's Rant in the National Post

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's more a situation of the poor being exploited by the wealthy, but yeah, your comment is actually pretty demonstrative of the problem.

I would love to see solidarity among all poor people.

SHHHHHHHH don't tell them!

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by blankall

Anyone with a working class accent will be actively discriminated against. The same thing happens to anyone with a foreign, non-Western European accent.

I agree.. But I'd also consider recent immigrants to be a minority. Are we saying that those immigrants are worse off than black people discrimination wise?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I can't say for certain regarding accounting, but talk to women and minorities in STEM and it's absolutely been an industry that's hostile to marginalized people. Is your stance seriously that women and minorities haven't been historically denied jobs because of their gender, race, etc.?

My position is the disparities are mostly due to other reasons. But people want to believe they’re about qualified candidates being turned away by bigots and sexists because that makes for a more emotionally stirring narrative.

Also, I work in STEM. And relative to their share of the general population, Asians are overrepresented among my colleagues. How to account for that if hiring is distorted by entrenched bigotry?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

My position is the disparities are mostly due to other reasons. But people want to believe they’re about qualified candidates being turned away by bigots and sexists because that makes for a more emotionally stirring narrative.

And I'm assuming you have stats to back your narrative up? Because most of the actual evidence on the topic I've seen points the other way.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And I'm assuming you have stats to back your narrative up? Because most of the actual evidence on the topic I've seen points the other way.

As a baseline, we would expect the makeup of new hires in a field to align with the makeup of graduates in that field. So if your contention is that it’s widespread for qualified candidates to be turned down owing to race or gender, you’ll want to show evidence that new hires are not aligned with graduates. That should point you in the right direction.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

My position is the disparities are mostly due to other reasons. But people want to believe they’re about qualified candidates being turned away by bigots and sexists because that makes for a more emotionally stirring narrative.

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minoritie...ore-interviews

Employer callbacks for resumes that were whitened fared much better in the application pile than those that included ethnic information, even though the qualifications listed were identical. Twenty-five percent of black candidates received callbacks from their whitened resumes, while only 10 percent got calls when they left ethnic details intact. Among Asians, 21 percent got calls if they used whitened resumes, whereas only 11.5 percent heard back if they sent resumes with racial references.

https://hbr.org/2017/10/hiring-discr...ed-in-25-years

Broadly, our meta-analysis of callback rates from all existing field experiments showed evidence of discrimination against both black and Latino applicants. Since 1990 white applicants received, on average, 36% more callbacks than black applicants and 24% more callbacks than Latino applicants with identical résumés.

Your turn.

[Minnie]

It's too bad he couldn't have stayed comatose.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by blankall

Anyone with a working class accent will be actively discriminated against. The same thing happens to anyone with a foreign, non-Western European accent.

Do working class accents exist in Canada?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SebC

Do working class accents exist in Canada?

100%. My girlfriend always comments how she can tell who I'm talking to on the phone because I tone-switch with the dudes I grew up with (more blue-collar) background vs. my more recent friends from university/work. It's totally subconscious, too, but there's definitely an accent and I pick up on it when I'm back home, too.

[rubecube]

I should add, anecdotally, that when I used to work for a fairly large company back in the mid-2000s, during the height of Islamophobia, I had several of my superiors comment that they wouldn't hire a Muslim.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I should add, anecdotally, that when I used to work for a fairly large company back in the mid-2000s, during the height of Islamophobia, I had several of my superiors comment that they wouldn't hire a Muslim.

That was a long time ago and certainly against policy now, especially large companies with evolving HR departments.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That was a long time ago and certainly against policy now, especially large companies with evolving HR departments.

It's like 12-15 years ago. Not a lifetime ago. But it gets to the previous point. If this was common 12-15 years ago, then it would stand to reason that Muslims were under-hired and as such underrepresented in various industries. So how do you fix that to even it out?

As I said, my example is anecdotal, so I'm not willing to say they were under-hired without any statistics to back it up, but I'd be surprised if they weren't based on the accepted rhetoric at the time.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by SebC

Do working class accents exist in Canada?

Are you serious? The answer is yes. Go onto a construction worksite or into small towns. There's also an accent that many indigenous people have, that is also associated with being lesser.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I agree.. But I'd also consider recent immigrants to be a minority. Are we saying that those immigrants are worse off than black people discrimination wise?

Discrimination is not a contest.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's like 12-15 years ago. Not a lifetime ago. But it gets to the previous point. If this was common 12-15 years ago, then it would stand to reason that Muslims were under-hired and as such underrepresented in various industries. So how do you fix that to even it out?

As I said, my example is anecdotal, so I'm not willing to say they were under-hired without any statistics to back it up, but I'd be surprised if they weren't based on the accepted rhetoric at the time.

I don't know that we need to even it out just don't exclude. I interview and hire people, just literally don't see color and don't exclude. And you can't tell who's Muslim. Your supervisors were probably excluding brown people period. I know Indian people who were caught up in 9/11 racism.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by SebC

Do working class accents exist in Canada?

yes but not as obviously as in the UK init

[SebC]

Originally Posted by blankall

Are you serious? The answer is yes. Go onto a construction worksite or into small towns. There's also an accent that many indigenous people have, that is also associated with being lesser.

Serious. I haven't noticed a difference in accent between cashiers and doctors.

Rural accents, indigenous accents, accents that might suffer prejudice, and different vocabulary, I've heard of all those. But I can't say a class-based accent is anything I've ever identified.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by SebC

Serious. I haven't noticed a difference in accent between cashiers and doctors.

Rural accents, indigenous accents, accents that might suffer prejudice, and different vocabulary, I've heard of all those. But I can't say a class-based accent is anything I've ever identified.

There's definitely cross-over between rural and working class accents in Canada. Watch the movie "Fubar" for a parody of it.

[PeteMoss]

Sure. But the whole point of cliffs comment was that there is this swath of people who are all woked up so these working class white people were getting screwed so these people could score woke points.

They are getting screwed but it has nothing to do with people being woke or not.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by SebC

Do working class accents exist in Canada?

You betchya!