American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Really the biggest problem is the right unites and the left will eat itself.

Left Wing #1: I support LGBTQ rights
Left Wing #2: It's 2ALGBTQIA+ you fascist ######

Right Wing #1: All Mexican immigrants should be shot in the street.
Right Wing #2: They don't actually mean *my* Mexican immigrant friends, they mean the evil ones, where do I sign?

I'd say it's the opposite actually. The Democrats (like Canada's Liberals) place too much emphasis on performative tokenism, while doing little to actually improve the lives of the disenfranchised people they're claiming to represent. They've essentially conceded much of the working class vote, and allowed Republicans to enlarge their base as a result. The right is engaging in culture wars and the Democrats are playing right into it.

Their current strategy can sort of succeed with charming and inspiring leadership and under the right circumstances; Obama was extremely popular, largely because he could address working class peoples' concerns without sounding like he was pandering. But with the vapid, hollow, and ancient leadership of the current party, it's a pretty tough sell and we're seeing the results. Biden's approval ratings are basically a mirror of Trump's and Harris' are even lower (and it's hard to see much on the horizon that will change that). The Democrats are old and out of touch; I mean, Chuck Schumer at 71 is relatively young among Democratic leadership and 15 of the 20 Chairpersons of the Congressional committees are 70+ years old. Somehow they make Trump seem young.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Love it. In what way would you say the Biden presidency has substantially improved the material conditions of the average, working-class voter?

Honestly, I don't know.

But I think that's gets to the heart of what I was getting at earlier.

Small ball versus Grand Slam.

Biden's whole MO was the fact he was the king of small ball and getting deals done. Now he's doing that, but has low approval rating because he's not knocking dingers out of the park.

Honestly, I don't know how I'd approach things if I were President. The Dems don't have enough seats to tell Manchin and Sinema to go f*** themselves, but also they can't give in to all their demands as they're basically Republicans that won Democratic tickets.

But that's the other thing, what is the solution, what would you do if you were President?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Honestly, I don't know.



But I think that's gets to the heart of what I was getting at earlier.



Small ball versus Grand Slam.



Biden's whole MO was the fact he was the king of small ball and getting deals done. Now he's doing that, but has low approval rating because he's not knocking dingers out of the park.

Which deals is he getting done?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Love it. In what way would you say the Biden presidency has substantially improved the material conditions of the average, working-class voter?

From the infrastructure bill:

And it contains $1 billion to reconnect communities -- mainly disproportionately Black neighborhoods -- that were divided by highways and other infrastructure, according to the White House. It will fund planning, design, demolition and reconstruction of street grids, parks or other infrastructure.

The package provides $39 billion to modernize public transit, according to the text. That's less than the $85 billion that Biden initially wanted to invest in modernizing transit systems and help them expand to meet rider demand.

The funds will repair and upgrade existing infrastructure, make stations accessible to all users, bring transit service to new communities and modernize rail and bus fleets

It also aims to help lower the price households pay for internet service by requiring federal funding recipients to offer a low-cost affordable plan, by creating price transparency and by boosting competition in areas where existing providers aren't providing adequate service. It will also create a permanent federal program to help more low-income households access the internet, according to the White House fact sheet.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I'd say it's the opposite actually. The Democrats (like Canada's Liberals) place too much emphasis on performative tokenism, while doing little to actually improve the lives of the disenfranchised people they're claiming to represent. They've essentially conceded much of the working class vote, and allowed Republicans to enlarge their base as a result. The right is engaging in culture wars and the Democrats are playing right into it.

Their current strategy can sort of succeed with charming and inspiring leadership and under the right circumstances; Obama was extremely popular, largely because he could address working class peoples' concerns without sounding like he was pandering. But with the vapid, hollow, and ancient leadership of the current party, it's a pretty tough sell and we're seeing the results. Biden's approval ratings are basically a mirror of Trump's and Harris' are even lower (and it's hard to see much on the horizon that will change that). The Democrats are old and out of touch; I mean, Chuck Schumer at 71 is relatively young among Democratic leadership and 15 of the 20 Chairpersons of the Congressional committees are 70+ years old. Somehow they make Trump seem young.

I think both are true. He’s referring to Dem voters and you’re talking about the party leadership.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by opendoor

The Democrats are old and out of touch; I mean, Chuck Schumer at 71 is relatively young among Democratic leadership and 15 of the 20 Chairpersons of the Congressional committees are 70+ years old. Somehow they make Trump seem young.

It's not like it would be better if they turned the party over to the younger crowd... that way trades the slow, eroding doom that's currently on offer for a much swifter version.

AOC '24! Project 0 seats! Let's re-define what it means to lose the House!

[GirlySports]

It'll be funny when the Republicans run 46 year old DeSantis against 82 year old Biden.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

That’s the point the standard of living in the US hasn’t degraded to the point where people are willing to risk their jobs for political change. The political system is set up to not allow that change and neither party is interested in that change.

Therefore focusing on organization and people willing to lose jobs over striking is your only way forward. You are saying it will be difficult. I agree it will be difficult.

If I’m following what you’re saying correctly, you believe that Unions would be a good mechanism to help change the system and you think if they were to organize Walmart and Amazon they’d become even more effective in doing so. I completely agree with both statements, but calling the latter difficult to do is a little disingenuous especially in the case of Walmart.

This is why I think the focus needs to be on giving Unions the ability to do what we both agree will help. That doesn’t start with organizing new members at companies where the current laws effectively make organizing impossible, it starts with changing public perception of Unions to get people to stop voting for candidates who don’t support Unions so that the laws can be changed to actually make it possible for Unions to organize new members at those companies.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

If I’m following what you’re saying correctly, you believe that Unions would be a good mechanism to help change the system and you think if they were to organize Walmart and Amazon they’d become even more effective in doing so. I completely agree with both statements, but calling the latter difficult to do is a little disingenuous especially in the case of Walmart.

This is why I think the focus needs to be on giving Unions the ability to do what we both agree will help. That doesn’t start with organizing new members at companies where the current laws effectively make organizing impossible, it starts with changing public perception of Unions to get people to stop voting for candidates who don’t support Unions so that the laws can be changed to actually make it possible for Unions to organize new members at those companies.

None of the corporatist parties are going to improve union laws. So it needs to start with organizing and strikes.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GGG

None of the corporatist parties are going to improve union laws. So it needs to start with organizing and strikes.

No, in the US it starts with teaching the population that unions are a good thing

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Which deals is he getting done?

This is the post I was referring to:

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Biden Won Big With a Bad Hand

…Relative to its strength in Congress, the Biden administration has proved outstandingly successful. In 11 months, Biden has done more with 50 Democratic senators than Barack Obama did with 57. He signed a $1.9 trillion COVID-relief bill in March 2021: $1,400-per-person direct payments, $350 billion in aid to state and local governments, an extension of supplemental unemployment-insurance benefits and subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. He signed a $1 trillion infrastructure bill in November. He signed some 75 executive orders, many of them advancing liberal immigration goals. He’s also won confirmation for some 40 federal judges, more than any first-year president since Ronald Reagan, and twice as many as Donald Trump confirmed in his first year with a 54-vote Senate majority…

… Instead of fulminating against Manchin for calling quits when he did, Democrats might want to reflect on how much of their agenda got enacted only thanks to the team spirit of a senator from a state that Trump won in 2020 by 39 points.

Anybody can win a poker game with a good hand. It takes a real maestro to play a bad one.

Biden won a bigger pool with worse cards than any Democratic president ever. He won that pool because Manchin gave Biden more loyalty under more adverse conditions than the moderate Democrats of 2009 gave to President Obama.

Perhaps it’s not the nature of Democrats to appreciate the glass half full. But half full it is.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...agenda/621085/

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Ah, but perhaps you missed the part where that post was immediately dismissed owing to its author being a former Bush jr. speechwriter.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Ah, but perhaps you missed the part where that post was immediately dismissed owing to its author being a former Bush jr. speechwriter.

Did Biden:

• Sign a $1.9 trillion COVID-relief bill in March 2021?
• Sign a $1 trillion infrastructure bill in November?
• Confirmation ~40 federal judges?

If so, it's demonstrating that he's getting stuff done.

I'm passing no comment, judgment or opinion on whether what he's doing is great, amazing, or simply marginally ok. Just that it's getting done.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Did Biden:

• Sign a $1.9 trillion COVID-relief bill in March 2021?
• Sign a $1 trillion infrastructure bill in November?
• Confirmation ~40 federal judges?

If so, it's demonstrating that he's getting stuff done.

I'm passing no comment, judgment or opinion on whether what he's doing is great, amazing, or simply marginally ok. Just that it's getting done.

He's made some pretty significant strides in improving Obamacare, which really has been a good program for a lot of working class/low middle class, and they've made some significant strides in improving it for middle class types without employer coverage.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/polit...ine/index.html

This has got about zero attention, but has actually helped people with their healthcare.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Love it. In what way would you say the Biden presidency has substantially improved the material conditions of the average, working-class voter?

I think you gravely underestimate the political effect of legitimizing your oppositions narratives by buying into every complaining that disingenuously level for not living up to a mile high yard stick. While the points can be valid, always looking at them with such a negative lens is truly harmful and will only stand to set your cause back in the long run. Politics is like improve, the number one rule should be "yes and", with they give you an infrastructure bill take it, and if they let you put judges on the bench take it. And keep asking for more, but don't diminish the what has been done or the intent behind it, lest you prove the nihilistic correct.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

None of the corporatist parties are going to improve union laws. So it needs to start with organizing and strikes.

Less than 11% of American workers are unionized, and that includes Union member working in right to work shops which are far less likely to get full buy-in from workers to participate in any form of collective action.

I think you’d agree that while it’s a significant enough number to effect some change, it’s nowhere near enough to do so at rate that will outpace the agenda of their opponents. I’m guessing this is why you’re saying they need to organize more to become more effective, which again I agree with. The flaw in that plan though is that under the current laws they can’t(realistically) organize places like Walmart as you’re suggesting so there’s no actual path to get to where you’re wanting them to go.

Going on wildcat strikes right now isn’t going to incentivize anti-Union politicians to change the laws to make joining a Union easier, instead it’s going to give them a reason to justify increasing the fines levied against a Union for doing so.

[aaronck]

Who cares what Biden is doing? the REAL president has figured out a loophole around his ban from most social media platforms- 5D chess indeed

He made a website (more of a blog really) to keep followers informed of important stuff
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/news

Here's the entry for yesterday

Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America
01/17/22

Will Morning Joe be canceled? He and Mika’s ratings are very low—they are having an extremely hard time finding an audience to listen to the Fake News they spurn. Losing them would be very sad—hope it doesn’t happen! On another front, looks like Unjoy Reid, the racist commentator on MSDNC (MSNBC), is toast. Her stupidity is only surpassed by her absolute lack of television persona. She never had it, and never will. The only thing she’s good at is spewing racist hate but obviously, no one is listening!

[Fuzz]

I'd rather just go back to pretending he doesn't exist.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'd rather just go back to pretending he doesn't exist.

Get used to it. He's likely gonna run again in 2024, and sadly he'll probably win this time due to the rampant voter suppression and corrupt shenanigans currently taking place in various GOP state legislatures.

On the other side you've got Manchin and Sinema holding the country hostage, blocking voting rights legislation, and basically torpedoing Biden's entire presidency. At this rate it's looking like the U.S. will officially become an authoritarian state by 2025. Good times!

[GirlySports]

My opinion, I think Trump is irrelevant, media creation to keep milking ratings. I don't think the GOP establishment lets Trump win again. They'll stop him in the primaries, even if it takes getting behind one person eventually, like the Democrats all dropped out to get behind Biden over Bernie.

Also, i think whoever that one person is that the GOP rallies behind against Trump, Kristi Noem will be on the ticket as the running mate.