American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by rubecube

She's right of course. Absolutely bonkers that this is legal.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425790976480657409

I'm not sure why there aren't more news stories about how US politicians (particularly senators) all seem to leave politics rich. Perhaps they were all rich before entering politics or maybe I just miss stories but seems like a layup story

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm not sure why there aren't more news stories about how US politicians (particularly senators) all seem to leave politics rich. Perhaps they were all rich before entering politics or maybe I just miss stories but seems like a layup story

Because their media is part of the plutocracy.

[photon]

The Pillow Guy's symposium intended to prove the 2020 election was stolen went about as well as you'd expect. The infosec experts they brought in to analyze the data ended up not getting any data, and the $5 million offer to anyone that could disprove the cyber attack occurred was withdrawn after their main cyber expert Josh Merritt suddenly said of The Pillow Guy's data "packet captures are unrecoverable in the data and that the data, as provided, cannot prove a cyber incursion by China."

I think I am psychologically incapable of accepting that anyone believes any of the nonsense going on. That people believe it causes me existential agony.

[Dion]

A federal judge denied motions from Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, and Mike Lindell to dismiss Dominion's lawsuits against them

A federal judge in Washington ruled Wednesday that Dominion Voting Systems can proceed with three billion-dollar defamation lawsuits against former Trump campaign lawyers Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani and MyPillow founder Mike Lindell, all of whom accused Dominion of rigging the 2020 election against former President Donald Trump. U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols rejected the three defendants' motions to dismiss Dominion's suits, writing that Powell and Lindell in particular made claims about the voting machine company "knowing that they were false or with reckless disregard for the truth."

The separate arguments from Powell, Lindell, and Giuliani "found little resonance with Nichols, a Trump appointee who seemed disdainful of their conduct and of suggestions that their statements were within the bounds of freewheeling political debate,"

Tackling Powell's free-speech argument, Nichols wrote in his 44-page decision that "it is simply not the law that provably false statements cannot be actionable if made in the context of an election." So the question, he added, "is whether a reasonable juror could conclude that Powell's statements expressed or implied a verifiably false fact about Dominion. This is not a close call."

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/judge-allo...060249126.html

[Dion]

Originally Posted by photon

the pillow guy's symposium intended to prove the 2020 election was stolen went about as well as you'd expect. The infosec experts they brought in to analyze the data ended up not getting any data, and the $5 million offer to anyone that could disprove the cyber attack occurred was withdrawn after their main cyber expert josh merritt suddenly said of the pillow guy's data "packet captures are unrecoverable in the data and that the data, as provided, cannot prove a cyber incursion by china."

i think i am psychologically incapable of accepting that anyone believes any of the nonsense going on. That people believe it causes me existential agony.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425614163276189697

[Nyah]

Things in Afghanistan are deteriorating really quickly. The Taliban have taken control of Kandahar and aren't far from Kabul. Canada, the US and the UK are all sending in troops to rapidly evacuate embassies. It sounds like the US is warning that the Afghan gov't could fall in as little as 30 days, prompting questions on whether this was done properly or not. Biden wanted the troops home by the 20th anniversary of 9/11, and looking what's happening now it seems rushed and chaotic.

I really feel for the Afghan civilians in all this, it sounds like a legitimate nightmare scenario. I'm really glad Canada and other nations are bringing in members of the Afghan military/police forces, translators, etc. and their families as refugees. This is going to get really ugly.

Anthony Cordesman, one of the world's leading experts on Afghanistan at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, said both administrations had access to the classified intelligence about the Afghan government's weakness and the reconstitution of the Taliban.

"Both the Trump and Biden administrations seem to have used peace negotiations as a political cover for withdrawal, and they did so without ever advancing any credible peace plan and with no real peace negotiations taking place," Cordesman wrote.

"Both administrations should clearly have seen the probable consequences and the likelihood of a 'worst case' contingency. One can argue the wisdom of their choices to withdraw, but scarcely on a partisan basis."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tal...ug13-1.6139643

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Things in Afghanistan are deteriorating really quickly. The Taliban have taken control of Kandahar and aren't far from Kabul. Canada, the US and the UK are all sending in troops to rapidly evacuate embassies. It sounds like the US is warning that the Afghan gov't could fall in as little as 30 days, prompting questions on whether this was done properly or not. Biden wanted the troops home by the 20th anniversary of 9/11, and looking what's happening now it seems rushed and chaotic.

I really feel for the Afghan civilians in all this, it sounds like a legitimate nightmare scenario. I'm really glad Canada and other nations are bringing in members of the Afghan military/police forces, translators, etc. and their families as refugees. This is going to get really ugly.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tal...ug13-1.6139643

I don't know enough about Afghanistan to know either way, but is this really bad for the Afgan citizens or just that we've been conditioned to feel the Taliban is bad? Probably not ideal for the US given their installed government is falling, but does it matter for the people there?

[GirlySports]

The withdrawal really happened in 2014 and these are just the final remnants of it. It's sad but it's been 20 years. The country can't set up a proper government or military and could fall in 30 days?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I don't know enough about Afghanistan to know either way, but is this really bad for the Afgan citizens or just that we've been conditioned to feel the Taliban is bad? Probably not ideal for the US given their installed government is falling, but does it matter for the people there?

Yes it does matter, especially for women

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The withdrawal really happened in 2014 and these are just the final remnants of it. It's sad but it's been 20 years. The country can't set up a proper government or military and could fall in 30 days?

Yeah, it sounds like their gov't is a total #### show. I mean, they had so much time to prepare for this. They had to know something like this was going to happen?

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I don't know enough about Afghanistan to know either way, but is this really bad for the Afgan citizens or just that we've been conditioned to feel the Taliban is bad? Probably not ideal for the US given their installed government is falling, but does it matter for the people there?

Girlysports already pointed out that women would be most affected, and that's very true unfortunately.

Life under the Taliban in the 1990s saw women forced to wear the all-covering burka, education restricted for girls over 10 and brutal punishments brought in, including public executions.

"I am in danger - [but] I don't anymore think about myself," Ms Karimi said. "I think about our country... I think about our generation: that we did a lot to bring these changes.

"I think about young girls... there are thousands of beautiful, young talented women in this country."

Speaking to the BBC shortly before Kandahar fell, Pashtana Durrani, executive director of an education NGO that works with Afghan girls, said she was scared for her life because of her vocal role in advocating for women's education.

"The girls who we work with have already fled," she said. "I don't know where the students are and I'm personally scared about their life. What if they're married to a Taliban fighter? What will their life be like?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58191638

[dobbles]

I'm torn on Afghanistan. As girly alludes to, America has been there for nearly 20 years. In all that time of helping to rebuild their defense mechanisms, we only managed to build a system that could hold off the Taliban for 30 days? So if we are saying Biden rushed this, or Trump or Obama, etc, then what is the alternative? Stay 20 more years so the country could last 60 days before collapsing when we eventually leave?

At some point we have to accept that there doesn't seem to be much of an effort inside the country to prevent Taliban rule, so we just have to accept their leadership and deal with them as we would any other 'hostile' country. I feel like I am in the wrong for thinking this way, I'm just not sure what the better answer is.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I feel like I am in the wrong for thinking this way, I'm just not sure what the better answer is.

It's a tough one for sure, I don't know what the answer is either. I just really feel for the Afghan people, and veterans who spent time over there. This has got to be hard to stomach for them too.

[GirlySports]

It's really sad. When Biden announced the final withdrawl, he stressed that the Afghan forces numbered over 300,000 and the Taliban just 75,000. But the Afghan forces are just surrendering and joining the Taliban now that the US is leaving.

“Look, we spent over a trillion dollars over twenty years, we trained and equipped with modern equipment over 300,000 Afghan forces,” Biden said.
“Afghan leaders have to come together,” the president added. “They’ve got to fight for themselves, fight for their nation.”

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I think the best thing to do is try and go after the funding of the Taliban at this point, but unfortunately this strategy has been tried in recent years and hasn't done much to move the needle. They operate on a complex network of finances embedded in illegal trade of narcotics, legal industries in the country, and international funding.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46554097

It feels like an impossible task. The only thing left is for the citizenry to rise up and fight back, but that will likely create so much bloodshed to not be worth it.

Looks like the Taliban will become the de facto government in Afghanistan before the end of the year. Depressing.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I'm torn on Afghanistan. As girly alludes to, America has been there for nearly 20 years. In all that time of helping to rebuild their defense mechanisms, we only managed to build a system that could hold off the Taliban for 30 days? So if we are saying Biden rushed this, or Trump or Obama, etc, then what is the alternative? Stay 20 more years so the country could last 60 days before collapsing when we eventually leave?

At some point we have to accept that there doesn't seem to be much of an effort inside the country to prevent Taliban rule, so we just have to accept their leadership and deal with them as we would any other 'hostile' country. I feel like I am in the wrong for thinking this way, I'm just not sure what the better answer is.

Is there a good example of success of an outside military removing the existing government and creating a stable democracy after they leave? Has this concept ever worked?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is there a good example of success of an outside military removing the existing government and creating a stable democracy after they leave? Has this concept ever worked?

Does Germany count?

[nik-]

Or Japan?

[rubecube]

You have to also remember that the Taliban offered to engage in peace negotiations with the Bush Administration back in the early 00s and the administration declined.

Absolutely disgusts me that there are those in the liberal MSM sphere who continue to contribute to the image rehab efforts of everyone involved in the Bush admin.

[CaptainCrunch]

The Taliban should never have been trusted. Bush thought they were talking in good faith, so did Obama, Trump was just a flaming moron.

We all knew that the minute the American's and Canadians and others left that the Taliban would come back hard, then retrench.

The visuals of soccer stadiums as execution centers is going to be a harsh indictment of American policy in the region . . . again. Like Iraq, the American's and the Western world had absolutely no exit strategy.

Now we're going to see a path of bloody revenge like we haven't seen in the last few hundred years.

At the same time, while our government is bragging about evacuating Embassy Staff and flying in half full airplanes. Interpreters and others that helped the Canadian Forces that haven't been evacuated are starting to go radio silent, which means dead.

The Western World has broken faith with the woman and children in Afghanistan, and with the interpreters and others that helped us out there. And Biden's speech about the 300,000 and money spent, to me came off poorly and uncaring.