Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[timun]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Until resources dry up. Imagine the bitching and moaning as Alberta becomes Kentucky 2.0, begging for hand outs.

Yep. Unfortunately a great many of our fellow Albertans are delusional rubes who think that the province's financial fortunes are due to an innate "specialness" that only Albertans have, and only a conservative political party can shepherd it. Our "entrepreneurial, cowboy spirit" or what have you. In reality it's just blind, stupid luck.

Our current government are petulant children bragging about having hit a home run after starting at third base. They would have you believe the rest of the country is out to get us, and "tHeY hAtE uS cAuSe ThEy AnUs!1!!" Reality is they don't give much of a damn about us at all, and the ones who hate us hate us because far too many of us are unjustifiably arrogant ###holes.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by timun

Yep. Unfortunately a great many of our fellow Albertans are delusional rubes who think that the province's financial fortunes are due to an innate "specialness" that only Albertans have, and only a conservative political party can shepherd it. Our "entrepreneurial, cowboy spirit" or what have you. In reality it's just blind, stupid luck.

Our current government are petulant children bragging about having hit a home run after starting at third base. They would have you believe the rest of the country is out to get us, and "tHeY hAtE uS cAuSe ThEy AnUs!1!!" Reality is they don't give much of a damn about us at all, and the ones who hate us hate us because far too many of us are unjustifiably arrogant ###holes.

Still stings you got out voted eh?

[Wormius]

^ Same sentiment applies to all politics? Just asking in case need a witty comeback whenever somebody bitches about the governing party in the other threads.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Still stings you got out voted eh?

There’s that classic whataboutism, the last refuge of the damned from the most steamrolled poster on this site. Never disappoints.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Muta

There’s that classic whataboutism, the last refuge of the damned from the most steamrolled poster on this site. Never disappoints.

People got tired of the “I’m so much smarter, everyone else is stupid” NDP voter And it shows.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

People got tired of the “I’m so much smarter, everyone else is stupid” NDP voter And it shows.

And by everyone, you mean you. Quelle surprise there, spanky.

[Fuzz]

The part that stings is the general recognition and acceptance that we are surrounded by utter morons who can't think critically about anything beyond "owning the libs", no matter how many times they get punch in the dick, and that they somehow celebrate it. It's painful to really recognize just how easy it is for a populist to so shamelessly hoodwink the less intelligent members our society.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Muta

And by everyone, you mean you. Quelle surprise there, spanky.

I was thinking more the results of a Provincial election.

[Stewie991]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The part that stings is the general recognition and acceptance that we are surrounded by utter morons who can't think critically about anything beyond "owning the libs", no matter how many times they get punch in the dick, and that they somehow celebrate it. It's painful to really recognize just how easy it is for a populist to so shamelessly hoodwink the less intelligent members our society.

Only One That Can’t “THINK” Would Be YOU Fella!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Still stings you got out voted eh?

Go back to posting tweets. No one wants your actual thoughts.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Stewie991

Only One That Can’t “THINK” Would Be YOU Fella!

Ya, and your thinker is working perfectly.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I was thinking more the results of a Provincial election.

Congrats, back to the whataboutism again. It’s your go-to schtick. Whenever you get challenged (and always subsequently buried) on political discussion, you never fail to disappoint.

[Whynotnow]

The sentiment I see being floated around that this is just a negotiation ploy to get better deals from the rest of Canada just blow my mind.

First, the proponents of this would love for you to believe that, if it helps you get to a yes vote. They will wink and nod at this idea take your vote and take your pension.

Second, the concept of, well Quebec does this, we should too is just childish. It ignores the fact that Quebec does have a different role in confederation. I don’t always love the impact if this but I’m not willing to be part of a plan to make it even worse and more dysfunctional.

Finally, even if this was the play, we will threaten this and get our way it is such a massive distraction. The government and the opposition now need to focus on this. Sides will get picked by business, unions, chambers of commerce, communities etc. It will create uncertainty. We have real issues to deal with here, ones government could make progress on, this isn’t one of them.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is pensions the area you want to play with fire?

I object to the idea that Alberta is getting a bad deal in confederation. All of Alberta benefits are essentially based on magic rocks being underneath us. The extra money we pay to Ottawa is essentially based on having higher incomes. It’s essentially an argument against progressive taxation.

It also ignores the benefit alberta gets from not having to educate its migrants or pay for their parents CPP and health costs. Whenever we look at the subsidy Alberta pays to the rest of Canada we ignore the benefits we get.

But more importantly these types of political arguments shouldn’t be had around a pension plan. The argument of let’s put a crazy person in charge retirement savings because they might do something crazy that will help us is not how I want my pension managed.

No I wouldn't if it was my decision . And I would vote no in a plebiscite.

That doesn't mean I cant understand why this makes sense from a strategic political strategy standpoint based on the federal governments constant caving to Quebecs demands .

Threatening to remove Alberta's "over" funding of the CPP hits the Feds where it hurts, the bottom line. It is the easiest threat to make to start negotiating better deals for Alberta

This government was elected to get better deals for Alberta, not Canada. Is Alberta lucky to have resources? 100%. But we are also unlucky to not have open access to the Ocean's, Easy Hydro Power, and transportation waterways. We also have to fund expensive winter services that not all provinces do (or to the same extent)

Canada has set the precedent by constantly ceding to Quebecs demands/negotiating them down, and Alberta is realizing that is the only way to get to the negotiating table. Don't be surprised when other provinces follow if this threat tactic works.

People love to say in this thread/ The Federal thread "Why would the Liberals care about Alberta when they know they won't vote for them anyways" And they are correct.

So what option is left? If you aren't getting a seat at the table that you are buying dinner for, the threat of eating elsewhere might make people realize constantly antagonizing the person paying for dinner may lead to less food for themselves.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Finally, even if this was the play, we will threaten this and get our way it is such a massive distraction. The government and the opposition now need to focus on this. Sides will get picked by business, unions, chambers of commerce, communities etc. It will create uncertainty. We have real issues to deal with here, ones government could make progress on, this isn’t one of them.

What other issues? People have correctly pointed out that Alberta is dependent on natural revenue resources. And the Federal government is trying to destroy that industry.

You don't think getting better policies for Alberta should be the top short term priority? And we've seen the old negotiation strategy has not worked.

At the end of the day every issue effectively comes down to funding. Better schools, Health Care, Cost of living.

Oil revenue pays for all of that like it or not.

[Stewie991]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Ya, and your thinker is working perfectly.

Thanks, I know..

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

What other issues? People have correctly pointed out that Alberta is dependent on natural revenue resources. And the Federal government is trying to destroy that industry.

You don't think getting better policies for Alberta should be the top short term priority? And we've seen the old negotiation strategy has not worked.

At the end of the day every issue effectively comes down to funding. Better schools, Health Care, Cost of living.

Oil revenue pays for all of that like it or not.

We have record oil revenue but it isn’t being invested in better schools, healthcare, or improving cost of living, so what is it being spent on? Alberta is pretty terrible at long term priorities by focusing too much on the short term. Hence using resource revenue on operational items rather than thinking about how to actually pay for those things with the highest earners in the country.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

It really isn't higher income people that overcontribute, it's anyone whose career was solely after the changes in early 90s. There are no income levels that covered their pensions before that, and all income levels are covering their own pensions plus some of the previous deficit after.

Since Alberta is younger and growing faster than the other provinces over the last 30 years, we have a disproportionate number of people over contributing.

Thanks for the clarification, I didn’t know that. My point still stands… there is a formula for CPP contributions and benefits that is the same for all Canadians, and is no less fair for an individual in Alberta than one in any other province .

A province has the right to opt out and that does change the math, but that’s un-Canadian for what it’s worth.

[Whynotnow]

[QUOTE=Jason14h;8822362]What other issues? People have correctly pointed out that Alberta is dependent on natural revenue resources. And the Federal government is trying to destroy that industry.

You don't think getting better policies for Alberta should be the top short term priority? And we've seen the old negotiation strategy has not worked.

At the end of the day every issue effectively comes down to funding. Better schools, Health Care, Cost of living.

Oil revenue pays for all of that like it or not.[/QUOTE

And as my post points out, I completely disagree on two points. This idea of here take my vote, go ahead and use it as a negotiation tactic is something heys love for you to believe. Secondly, destabilizing tactics are bad for everyone.

You know what, be a leader. Don’t pick a fight on every file, work to find support from other provinces or aligned priorities with the feds. Work on homelessness, the lack of school seats. Those are issues right now, this is just a feint that even if succeeds would be three plus years away and it doesn’t actually affect provincial revenues…..

[GullFoss]

I don't understand why there is so much anger on this board about an Alberta Pension Plan. It results in lower contributions and higher payouts because of the way the math works. It's not shady math.