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Old 03-13-2022, 11:51 AM   #481
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Oh, we are into the benefits of unionizing to avoid minimum wage. Finally!


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Old 03-13-2022, 12:11 PM   #482
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Income Distribution in Canada by Age

Nearly 2 million seniors subsist on less than $17,000 each year. Seniors in Canada have not been immune to difficulties. Indeed, almost 15% of single seniors live in poverty.

Around two million seniors struggle to make ends meet on the government-provided Guaranteed Income Supplement. Their yearly income is slightly around $17,000, less than the $18,000 poverty threshold for a single person in Canada.

Source of this and many many other Canadian income facts are here:
https://www.insurdinary.ca/average-income-in-canada/
Something is wrong with those numbers as only 5.4% of seniors live in poverty.
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Old 03-13-2022, 02:41 PM   #483
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Something is wrong with those numbers as only 5.4% of seniors live in poverty.
They say about 2million persons Canada has about 40mil people right?
So close enough?
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Old 03-13-2022, 02:46 PM   #484
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They say about 2million persons… Canada has about 40mil people right?
So close enough?
But not 40 million seniors !

There are ~7 million seniors

This would suggest 30% of seniors are living on $17000 a year

This is not anywhere near accurate

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Old 03-13-2022, 02:56 PM   #485
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Oh, we are into the benefits of unionizing to avoid minimum wage. Finally!


Id be lying if I said I didnt get a kick out of how much these types of things seem to bother you and some other posters. Im not sure why it bothers you so much but Im reasonably confident its something beyond just you thinking Im wrong or being misleading. Otherwise youd probably be just as quick to complain about the posters trying to convince themselves and others that minimum wage earners are going to get anywhere close to a maxed out CPP payment.
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:46 PM   #486
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I’d be lying if I said I didn’t get a kick out of how much these types of things seem to bother you and some other posters. I’m not sure why it bothers you so much but I’m reasonably confident it’s something beyond just you thinking I’m wrong or being misleading. Otherwise you’d probably be just as quick to complain about the posters trying to convince themselves and others that minimum wage earners are going to get anywhere close to a maxed out CPP payment.
No, you are OK, bud. As I said somewhere here before, even when I disagree with you, I respect your unwavering support of unions and the way you argue your opinions, no issues there at all. Also, for the record, I DO believe that unions can play a very important role in ensuring well-being of its members, for as long as their executives stay on that task rather than veering off to solve the world labour movement problems at the expense of taxpayers. I also DO believe that from the business stability point of view, large employers really benefit from negotiating with unions, but this is way off topic here. Peace

...Having said that, you cannot disagree with how funny it is having you jump in and waive your sword about low-income people being unable to save for retirement in the thread dedicated to saving for retirement.
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Old 03-14-2022, 12:19 PM   #487
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My advise to lower income people, especially those just starting out, would be:

1. Only have one credit card e.g. Visa or Mastercard, and make sure you pay off the balance every month.

2. Establish a long term relationship with one bank, and work on maintaining as high a credit rating as possible.
I have not much to add to this thread, but I need to intervene here.

If you're low income, absolutely, positively, no way in god damned hell, should you use a credit card.

I don't care what lies you tell yourself about your self control, about your steadfast financial restraint, you long term planning ability, your rewards points/benefit value propositions.

You're low income. You're limited by that. The interest on a credit card puts you one bad decision away from years upon years of a cascading debt load and further from any financial independence. Credit Card don't exist because people manage to actually pay them off every month. Debt load reporting proves this; those with no consumer debt are the exception, not the rule.

Secondly, low income, what kind of relationship are you going to get with your bank? Times have changed, they don't give a ####. The only relationship they want with your $50K salary is 19% on your mastercard. You don't need to worry much about a credit score, because if you're low income you shouldnt be buying anything on credit anyway.

Source? I'm in no way 'low income', and was sucked into the Credit Card trap because I convinced myself I could use my next paycheque to cover what I just did. In 5 years, from $0 to $20K in CC debt. I've been clawing my way out of it, paid off a $10K balance one card last month. Its hell, its embarrassing, and it's robbing my future self every day. All because 5 years ago I agreed to $15K credit card because 'Credit Score!'

Don't do it. Don't tell others to do it. If you did and never paid a dime in interest, you are the exception;
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Old 03-14-2022, 01:40 PM   #488
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I have not much to add to this thread, but I need to intervene here.

If you're low income, absolutely, positively, no way in god damned hell, should you use a credit card.

I don't care what lies you tell yourself about your self control, about your steadfast financial restraint, you long term planning ability, your rewards points/benefit value propositions.

You're low income. You're limited by that. The interest on a credit card puts you one bad decision away from years upon years of a cascading debt load and further from any financial independence. Credit Card don't exist because people manage to actually pay them off every month. Debt load reporting proves this; those with no consumer debt are the exception, not the rule.

Secondly, low income, what kind of relationship are you going to get with your bank? Times have changed, they don't give a ####. The only relationship they want with your $50K salary is 19% on your mastercard. You don't need to worry much about a credit score, because if you're low income you shouldnt be buying anything on credit anyway.

Source? I'm in no way 'low income', and was sucked into the Credit Card trap because I convinced myself I could use my next paycheque to cover what I just did. In 5 years, from $0 to $20K in CC debt. I've been clawing my way out of it, paid off a $10K balance one card last month. Its hell, its embarrassing, and it's robbing my future self every day. All because 5 years ago I agreed to $15K credit card because 'Credit Score!'

Don't do it. Don't tell others to do it. If you did and never paid a dime in interest, you are the exception;
You absolutely correct 81MC, however I read the guidance as meaning only get one credit card rather than multiple cards.
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Old 03-14-2022, 01:48 PM   #489
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I can see one credit card with a low limit, just to make sure that you stay out of too much trouble. I just don't know how feasible no credit card is these days? You basically need it for everything now, so it seems like it would be tough to get by without one. I know that you can get Visa Debit, and maybe that covers enough of the bases so that you can do it, I'm not too sure?

I was in a meeting once and this older advisor (I'd guess around 60-65) was telling the group that he didn't have a credit card and didn't believe in them. I was astonished. I obviously understand the interest issues and that kind of thing, but they're just used for almost everything at this point. That was prior to the Visa Debit being a thing, so I guess this guy was just cash only for things like hotel room deposits or whatever. That seemed a little extreme to me.
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Old 03-14-2022, 01:48 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by 81MC View Post
If you're low income, absolutely, positively, no way in god damned hell, should you use a credit card.
To play devil's advocate, predatory lending companies absolutely feast on those who are low income. That's their business model - crazy interest rates and compounding debt servicing costs.

I would say if you're low income, you're better off with a credit card than going to Cash Money or payday loan places if you're going to pay interest anyways. It might be incumbent on the bank to only allows a small limit, but at least you can sit down with a bank and figure out a payback method.

Both are not good options, but I believe credits cards are not the worst one. Especially with proper education and intervention when needed. Calgary-based Symends - one of the top startups in Canada - is one of those companies that can help manage that risk.
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Old 03-14-2022, 02:13 PM   #491
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Arguably it takes more discipline to have a line of credit, but anyone with credit card debt should get one and use that instead. At least they don't charge loan shark rates.

A credit card should be viewed as a tool to facilitate payments, not a source of financing. If you think in those terms, it makes sense why the interest rate is so punitive.
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Old 03-14-2022, 02:14 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by 81MC View Post
I have not much to add to this thread, but I need to intervene here.

If you're low income, absolutely, positively, no way in god damned hell, should you use a credit card.

I don't care what lies you tell yourself about your self control, about your steadfast financial restraint, you long term planning ability, your rewards points/benefit value propositions.

You're low income. You're limited by that. The interest on a credit card puts you one bad decision away from years upon years of a cascading debt load and further from any financial independence. Credit Card don't exist because people manage to actually pay them off every month. Debt load reporting proves this; those with no consumer debt are the exception, not the rule.

Secondly, low income, what kind of relationship are you going to get with your bank? Times have changed, they don't give a ####. The only relationship they want with your $50K salary is 19% on your mastercard. You don't need to worry much about a credit score, because if you're low income you shouldnt be buying anything on credit anyway.

Source? I'm in no way 'low income', and was sucked into the Credit Card trap because I convinced myself I could use my next paycheque to cover what I just did. In 5 years, from $0 to $20K in CC debt. I've been clawing my way out of it, paid off a $10K balance one card last month. Its hell, its embarrassing, and it's robbing my future self every day. All because 5 years ago I agreed to $15K credit card because 'Credit Score!'

Don't do it. Don't tell others to do it. If you did and never paid a dime in interest, you are the exception;
I'm sorry for your troubled experiences with credit cards However, for those that want to some day grow beyond the low income category, it is important that they establish a credit rating...preferably with one banking institution IMO. The simplest way to organize your finances, is to arrange to have the balance deducted from your bank account at the end of every month. Of course this is assuming you have a stable and predictable source of income.

I have always understood that the more credit cards you have, the lower your credit rating. When you take out new card, I believe it stays on your record for 5 or more years, even if you don't use it.

Last edited by flamesfever; 03-14-2022 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 03-14-2022, 02:38 PM   #493
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...Having said that, you cannot disagree with how funny it is having you jump in and waive your sword about low-income people being unable to save for retirement in the thread dedicated to saving for retirement.
What can I say? I live to give.

Having said that, I still think my suggestion was much more practical but more importantly much more effective than Buy a dog and Dont worry, be happy when it comes to planning for a better retirement. Giving low income workers suggestions that they cant actually use isnt going to be helpful no matter how helpful that same advice is to another individual who can use it.
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Old 03-14-2022, 04:01 PM   #494
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I'm sorry for your troubled experiences with credit cards However, for those that want to some day grow beyond the low income category, it is important that they establish a credit rating...preferably with one banking institution IMO. The simplest way to organize your finances, is to arrange to have the balance deducted from your bank account at the end of every month. Of course this is assuming you have a stable and predictable source of income.

I have always understood that the more credit cards you have, the lower your credit rating. When you take out new card, I believe it stays on your record for 5 or more years, even if you don't use it.
Credit scores are over rated.

If you responsibly use credit you will have a good credit score. If you irresponsibly use credit you wont.

Having a credit card you occasionally use is enough. I think what you suggest of having an amount automatically deducted at the end of the month requires way more money management skills then many have.

You need to be doing the old check book balancing every transaction to understand how much you are spending. The idea of just having an automatic payment taking care of the balance is the least important part. No one has a problem paying the bill on time. People have problems because they spent more than they can afford to pay.

Most people would be better off paying for every transaction as it occurs.
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Old 11-27-2022, 06:26 PM   #495
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How much as the last year in the investment market affected you?
(yes, I realize not everyone on here is able to, or has the means, to save/invest equally. This posting isn't intended to raise issues with that).

Was looking at my statements... obviously a rough 6 months until Sept, but fortunately a decent rebound since then. I suspect a lot of people got very worried and pulled some of their investments and missed the rebound. I'm hoping that the overhype in the media has it all wrong (which most overhype has) and we look to a few decent years again on the markets. But too many things happening to think this is as sure-a-thing as I'd like... continued Canadian politics scaring international investors, obviously Ukraine, USA elections results and going into the next one, balancing of inflation versus prime rates, post-covid crazy, etc.


Anyways, I figure the last couple of years probably extended retirement by at least a year. sigh...

So... for those of you who retired... approx what age was that? or for those looking into the future when are you realistically hoping to pull the pin and start sailing into your version of your sunset?


Some light opinionated reading:

https://www.greaterfool.ca/2022/11/14/the-blessed-2/

Last edited by RichieRich; 11-27-2022 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 11-27-2022, 06:35 PM   #496
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While I'm on the subject of finances... came across this article recently and though it was good given that I believe the demographics of this CP site have a lot of folks in their 40-50's and having aging parents .... some of which are going through significant health issues. So this article may be a well-time reminder about estates:
https://www.thebluntbeancounter.com/...ng-issues.html


And yeah he has many other excellent articles. Some fantastic and some very very dry. I guess as one gets older these get more interesting?
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Old 11-28-2022, 07:51 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by RichieRich View Post
How much as the last year in the investment market affected you?
(yes, I realize not everyone on here is able to, or has the means, to save/invest equally. This posting isn't intended to raise issues with that).

Was looking at my statements... obviously a rough 6 months until Sept, but fortunately a decent rebound since then. I suspect a lot of people got very worried and pulled some of their investments and missed the rebound. I'm hoping that the overhype in the media has it all wrong (which most overhype has) and we look to a few decent years again on the markets. But too many things happening to think this is as sure-a-thing as I'd like... continued Canadian politics scaring international investors, obviously Ukraine, USA elections results and going into the next one, balancing of inflation versus prime rates, post-covid crazy, etc.


Anyways, I figure the last couple of years probably extended retirement by at least a year. sigh...

So... for those of you who retired... approx what age was that? or for those looking into the future when are you realistically hoping to pull the pin and start sailing into your version of your sunset?


Some light opinionated reading:

https://www.greaterfool.ca/2022/11/14/the-blessed-2/
I haven't touched my investments. They're close to being back to where they were before the bear market. I have all index based ETFs - ie XUU, XIU, XEQT, 100% equities. Even in downturns, dividends roll in.

People always panic sell for a loss during downturns. It's stupid, but they do it.

Interestingly, GIC rates are pretty good. I had to park 100k that I have in cash for a potential down payment for a house next year. I got close to 5% for a 1-year GIC.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:33 AM   #498
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People always panic sell for a loss during downturns. It's stupid, but they do it.
Many people dislike Dave Ramsey (with good reason), but he does have a great quote on this: "the only person that gets hurt on a rollercoaster is the one that gets off halfway".

On the topic of credit cards, I have used one for many years but feel increasingly icky about it. I've managed to never carry a balance, and am fully conscious that the ones paying for my "free" trip are the struggling families barely making it on a month-to-month basis and carrying a balance.

I expect that reality will eventually convince me to cut my card up, but for the moment... weeeeeeeeeee
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:41 AM   #499
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Many people dislike Dave Ramsey (with good reason), but he does have a great quote on this: "the only person that gets hurt on a rollercoaster is the one that gets off halfway".

On the topic of credit cards, I have used one for many years but feel increasingly icky about it. I've managed to never carry a balance, and am fully conscious that the ones paying for my "free" trip are the struggling families barely making it on a month-to-month basis and carrying a balance.

I expect that reality will eventually convince me to cut my card up, but for the moment... weeeeeeeeeee
Merchants pay fees as a percentage of every credit card sale. Presumably, they've padded their prices to account for these fees, so really, we're all paying for the benefits and not just struggling families.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:48 AM   #500
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I haven't touched my investments. They're close to being back to where they were before the bear market. I have all index based ETFs - ie XUU, XIU, XEQT, 100% equities. Even in downturns, dividends roll in.

People always panic sell for a loss during downturns. It's stupid, but they do it.

Interestingly, GIC rates are pretty good. I had to park 100k that I have in cash for a potential down payment for a house next year. I got close to 5% for a 1-year GIC.
Im similar in its all in index funds that i dont look at. I focus on savings rate instead as that is what I control. Definitely lower rates then during Covid as vacations came back but overall hit savings targets for the year.
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