Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Fuzz]

Lying

https://twitter.com/user/status/1705684151847080156

Liars

https://twitter.com/user/status/1705684155261174147

Lie to you

https://twitter.com/user/status/1705684157396054080

And you bought it, despite all the warnings.

[Zarley]

There isn't really a financial rationale for Alberta to stay in CPP - I can't think of a rational argument against an APP other than doing a favour to the other provinces.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1705021521586954349

[Bill Bumface]

Should the residents of Mount Royal continue to contribute to the City of Calgary roads budget?

It makes no fiscal sense for them to do that. Pull out their contributions, and let the gold paving begin!

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Zarley

There isn't really a financial rationale for Alberta to stay in CPP - I can't think of a rational argument against an APP other than doing a favour to the other provinces.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1705021521586954349

I mean, if you had bothered to read the thread that you posted, you would know that while an APP might legitimately mean a small (like, very small) decrease in contributions that comes with a very large increase in risk and potentially very large set up costs.

So there's your financial rationale to stay in CPP...in the very thread you posted.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Zarley

There isn't really a financial rationale for Alberta to stay in CPP - I can't think of a rational argument against an APP other than doing a favour to the other provinces.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1705021521586954349

You believe Smith's numbers?

[Bill Bumface]

This all seems like a continuation of the selfish ideals prevalent among conservative voters. Everyone only cares about how much tax they individually pay, or what's in it for them, while never recognizing the benefits they receive on the backs of others.

The great example already brought up in this thread is how all of the eastern provinces are subsidizing the post-secondary education of all of the young workers that move out to Alberta and then pay taxes here for their prime earning years.

I don't get what the end game is here. If we don't want to cooperate with the rest of Canada and help the rest of the country out every once in a while, what's our upside? A thriving and successful landlocked nation like Tajikistan, but with only half the population?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

No matter how angry some of you are or how much text you write, it doesn't change the facts. Ask yourself how I knew what the broad results of the study would be before the study was released. The underlying facts that Albertans in aggregate pay more into CPP than they receive in benefits isn't really up for debate.

For anyone who actually understands how cpp was designed and it's history prior to CPPIB, it was obvious what the outcome of the study would be because it's axiomatic based on the contribution and benefits formulas.

You can argue that AB should subsidize other Canadians. And that CPP is a reasonable program where subsidies should exist. Those are valid positions are based on values and ideologies. And its plausible a plurality of Albertans feel that way. And if they do, then continuing with CPP makes sense.

But to howl about how the math is based on lies or that AB would necessarily be less responsible with the funds or that it's outside of AB's jurisdiction to unilaterally leave CPP...those are pretty disingenuous arguments imo

Which set of numbers do you use when you refer to as the Math. I suggest Toombes analysis be the basis of any rational discussion. Do you agree that should be the numbers we use?

[Izzle]

Absolutely hilarious that this topic has exposed posters who openly and willingly admit to being gullible.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Absolutely hilarious that this topic has exposed posters who openly and willingly admit to being gullible.

We should give them a blue checkmark.

[Ozy_Flame]

Did you know that having a blue checkmark raises your IQ 40 points, increases your pay 125%, and let's your personal musings on every topic known to man not only become primary scientific facts but become sage advice worthy of being on equal or better footing than the 'supposed' subject matter experts working in their fields for their entire careers?

It's true.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Absolutely hilarious that this topic has exposed posters who openly and willingly admit to being gullible.

Not that I disagree with you, but insulting people usually does not win hearts and minds.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Not that I disagree with you, but insulting people usually does not win hearts and minds.

What, you think this is the time they'll finally come around, once all the facts are in front of them, if we just treat them nicely? Uh huh. That's likely.

[sa226]

If we've learned anything over the past 3 years, reasoning, logic and overwhelming evidence doesn't win them either. So insults are just easier.

[BlackArcher101]

Imagine thinking the conservatives will trickle down any savings in the APP in the form of decreased payments into it, or increased payouts. How naive can you be? Even if promised, that will just be a lie as well.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Imagine thinking the conservatives will trickle down any savings in the APP in the form of decreased payments into it, or increased payouts. How naive can you be? Even if promised, that will just be a lie as well.

I expect we would see decreased contributions with an APP. That’s the whole point - put more money in the pockets of voters today. A lot of UCP supporters don’t even think we should have public pensions -let people save for their own retirement, like I do.

[edslunch]

Quebec declined to join the CPP, in part because their favourable demographics would give them a better deal going alone. Their birth rate was 4, so the projection was an ever-increasing tax base. Sixty years later their birth rate is 1.5 and they need to contribute more than other Canadians to get the same return.

Imagine where Alberta could be in sixty years, or even thirty years, as the world de-carbonizes. As attractive as the mirage of immediate benefits may be our politicians should be looking out for the best interests of the province long into the future when it comes to pensions.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

No matter how angry some of you are or how much text you write, it doesn't change the facts. Ask yourself how I knew what the broad results of the study would be before the study was released. The underlying facts that Albertans in aggregate pay more into CPP than they receive in benefits isn't really up for debate.

For anyone who actually understands how cpp was designed and it's history prior to CPPIB, it was obvious what the outcome of the study would be because it's axiomatic based on the contribution and benefits formulas.

You can argue that AB should subsidize other Canadians. And that CPP is a reasonable program where subsidies should exist. Those are valid positions are based on values and ideologies. And its plausible a plurality of Albertans feel that way. And if they do, then continuing with CPP makes sense.

But to howl about how the math is based on lies or that AB would necessarily be less responsible with the funds or that it's outside of AB's jurisdiction to unilaterally leave CPP...those are pretty disingenuous arguments imo

The issue with this line, is that it's fleeting. Today Albertans pay more than they received because of the demographics. But, what you get from CPP is dependent on your contributions, so if you contribute more today you'll receive more in the future. In other words...those higher contributions by Albertans will mean higher benefits for them when they start to draw the pension.