Francis: Ward should lose interim tag and be hired full-time

[Bingo]

These arguments always seem pointless to me.

If Treliving has Ward say 4th on his current list, but all tire kickings with Laviolette, Gallant and say Boundreau have suggested none of them will come to Calgary wouldn't result in any information coming our way on what actually went down.

The assumption (and 12 page argument) would be Treliving didn't look into anything, when actually he tried, was turned down, but had little to gain to extend Ward with a press conference saying this is the best we could do.

[Toonage]

While I wouldn't expect a presser where he introduces Ward as the best of whats left, I would not be shocked if he has to answer the question at some point - especially given the volume of top tier coaches available over the years he has been GM - has he tried to hire these individuals and if so, why were the Flames turned down repeatedly?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bingo

These arguments always seem pointless to me.

If Treliving has Ward say 4th on his current list, but all tire kickings with Laviolette, Gallant and say Boundreau have suggested none of them will come to Calgary wouldn't result in any information coming our way on what actually went down.

The assumption (and 12 page argument) would be Treliving didn't look into anything, when actually he tried, was turned down, but had little to gain to extend Ward with a press conference saying this is the best we could do.

That's the thing though. There isn't even rumors from reputable sources that he even had interest in an elite coach. All we hear about is how active he his in trying to get trades done or sign players but it's all quiet when it comes to him perusing a legitimate, winning, experienced hockey man. If I'm wrong and he has approached the plethora of qualified options and none those guys had interest in this roster, it should kind of tell you something, shouldn't it? It's either BT has no interest in them or they don't like the look of the team. Either way, it's not good. If the team was an elite contender I suspect an elite coach would actually want to coach here. Maybe I'm wrong and Calgary the city itself is the problem?

[dino7c]

Bill Peters was seen as top tier in many circles including hockey canada

and lets be real he was top tier last season...2nd overall

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Toonage

While I wouldn't expect a presser where he introduces Ward as the best of whats left, I would not be shocked if he has to answer the question at some point - especially given the volume of top tier coaches available over the years he has been GM - has he tried to hire these individuals and if so, why were the Flames turned down repeatedly?

Either he hasn't persued them because he's the smartest guy in the room or those guys don't think they can win with the current roster. Either way, it's an indictment the GM.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Bill Peters was seen as top tier in many circles including hockey canada

and lets be real he was top tier last season...2nd overall

Mr 1 playoff win was top tier? News to me. As soon as he leaves Carolina, they get better.

Calgary's season last year was close to as much of a mirage as 14-15 was, just for different reasons. It doesnt mean he's a good coach because he got to ride career years from half the roster in one season. The proof was in the pudding down the stretch and in the playoffs as things became tighter and more detailed oriented. He had no answer for teams with actual good coaches. Completely incapable of adjusting with the game, just like GG. At least those guys knew what a time out was though.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Either he hasn't persued them because he's the smartest guy in the room or those guys don't think they can win with the current roster. Either way, it's an indictment the GM.

Man I hate "smartest guy in the room"

He's paid to make decisions. Ideally he's collaborative. He works well with others.

But you don't hire GMs to poll other GMs and make sure his thinking is in line with others. If you don't like the guy, fire him by all means, but don't suggest a willingness to make one's own decisions is a character flaw.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Man I hate "smartest guy in the room"



He's paid to make decisions. Ideally he's collaborative. He works well with others.



But you don't hire GMs to poll other GMs and make sure his thinking is in line with others. If you don't like the guy, fire him by all means, but don't suggest a willingness to make one's own decisions is a character flaw.

Okay not 'smartest guy in the room'. How about 'often fails to make the best decisions, given the options at his disposal'. If he was choosing GG or BP over all those other guys, which it sounds like, I'm sorry but that's just piss poor decision making, even without hindsight. We have a flawed, unsuccessful hockey ops team, just my opinion. And that falls on him.

Decided we don't need top 3 round draft picks

No good coaching hires

Abysmal in UFA

Two decent trades in 5 years

Talks a mean talk though



History will judge him as not a good GM imo. I doubt he gets another crack at it after mangling this rebuild so bad. Seriously, who goes and trades all their picks after a millisecond of rebuilding? And then hires a red haired rookie doofus to run the ship?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Mr 1 playoff win was top tier? News to me. As soon as he leaves Carolina, they get better.

I said he was seen as top tier by others like hockey Canada...Less than a year ago he was 4th in Jack Adam's voting 1 point away from being a finalist.

Carolina had a different roster so IDK there. They had a decent playoff run (they can thank Holtby) and have been pretty average again this season

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I said he was seen as top tier to others like hockey Canada...Less than a year ago he was 4th in Jack Adam's voting 1 point away from being a finalist.



Carolina had a different roster so IDK there. They had a decent playoff run (they can thank Holtby) and have been pretty average again this season

The Jack Adams is the worst appeal to authority ever. It's basically given to the feel good story of the year. Not the guy judged to be building the best hockey program. Year over year consistency is shunned for flash in the pan flukes.

As far as Carolina goes, I felt BT won that trade and made them worse. The fact that rod the bod turned things around from stagnated mediocrity with a worse roster shows something. The hurricanes would probably be a 105 point team in the pacific.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

The Jack Adams is the worst appeal to authority ever. It's basically given to the feel good story of the year. Not the guy judged to be building the best hockey program. Year over year consistency is shunned for flash in the pan flukes.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

"coach of the YEAR"

anyway the point I was making is that lots of people in the hockey world thought Peters was a top tier coach that just had a bad roster in Carolina. Its not like BT went off the board...Guy was coaching team Canada at the worlds when hired.

Obviously hindsight you don't hire him again I just don't like the narrative that they cheaped out or smartest guy in the room ect.

Also, the great coaches everyone wants were all fired for a reason...Go look at Boudreau's playoff record

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dino7c

"coach of the YEAR"

anyway the point I was making is that lots of people in the hockey world thought Peters was a top tier coach that just had a bad roster in Carolina. Its not like BT went off the board...Guy was coaching team Canada at the worlds when hired.

Obviously hindsight you don't hire him again I just don't like the narrative that they cheaped out or smartest guy in the room ect.

Also, the great coaches everyone wants were all fired for a reason...Go look at Boudreau's playoff record

It's easier to judge 'coach of the YEAR' when you compare his year over year results against each other. Awarding the guy whose team happened to improve the most that one year usually after one year on the job indicates to me that it might be the most pointless trophy ever.

Disagree that Peters was thought of as top tier throughout the hockey world. Maybe hockey canada though I don't think much of that brain trust personally. These are the same people that had a high opinion of Bob Nicholson for some reason. You know, that lump that Edmonton hired?

As far as Peters goes, that luster had mostly worn off after 3 or 4 mediocre years with a young building team. 3 or 4 years is enough time to build a promising team, the fact that BP couldn't do that in Carolina said enough to me. I personally thought he was given a lot of underserved credibility for being mike Babcock's assistant.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Mr 1 playoff win was top tier? News to me. As soon as he leaves Carolina, they get better.

Calgary's season last year was close to as much of a mirage as 14-15 was, just for different reasons. It doesnt mean he's a good coach because he got to ride career years from half the roster in one season. The proof was in the pudding down the stretch and in the playoffs as things became tighter and more detailed oriented. He had no answer for teams with actual good coaches. Completely incapable of adjusting with the game, just like GG. At least those guys knew what a time out was though.

“I don’t like Bill Peters so I’m going to ignore the 50 wins he had prior to the playoffs because it doesn’t fit my narrative.”

Come on man, brutal take. Peters was great last season. He didn’t tell the players to play like garbage in the playoffs.

[dino7c]

Best season in 20 years is worth something
BP was a good hire not knowing all the other stuff that did him in IMO

NHL can't just cycle around the same coaches forever and usually the "top tier" guys are guys that had stacked rosters.

Babcock was the best coach in hockey pretty much universally but when he went to a ####ty Toronto team they finished dead last

I think some of you will be disappointed if you think this exact same roster will never come out flat or not show up with a more well known coach

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

“I don’t like Bill Peters so I’m going to ignore the 50 wins he had prior to the playoffs because it doesn’t fit my narrative.”



Come on man, brutal take. Peters was great last season. He didn’t tell the players to play like garbage in the playoffs.

The players were great in spite of him. When the chips were down, Peters was awful. Doesn't take a genius to play the top players together when they are feeling it. When things are going poorly is how you judge a leader. He failed miserably.

Solid first 3 months though.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Best season in 20 years is worth something
BP was a good hire not knowing all the other stuff that did him in IMO

NHL can't just cycle around the same coaches forever and usually the "top tier" guys are guys that had stacked rosters.

Babcock was the best coach in hockey pretty much universally but when he went to a ####ty Toronto team they finished dead last

I think some of you will be disappointed if you think this exact same roster will never come out flat or not show up with a more well known coach

We will never know because BT is seemingly scared of winning coaches with reputations and strong personalities.

If the way last season ended didn't resonate with you I don't know what to say. The Flames were children against men when it counted. It was a talent gap as much as a tactic gap.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

We will never know because BT is seemingly scared of winning coaches with reputations and strong personalities.

If the way last season ended didn't resonate with you I don't know what to say. The Flames were children against men when it counted. It was a talent gap as much as a tactic gap.

This guy....I said it was a reasonable hire AT THE TIME

Its easy to say these things with hindsight...If the Flames hire the coach you want and fail you will say

"Its the players! BT built a bad team"

If they stay with Ward and do well

"Its all the players, winning despite the coach"

If they hire your guy and do well

"I told ya so"

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This guy....I said it was a reasonable hire AT THE TIME



Its easy to say these things with hindsight...If the Flames hire the coach you want and fail you will say



"Its the players! BT built a bad team"



If they stay with Ward and do well



"Its all the players, winning despite the coach"



If they hire your guy and do well



"I told ya so"

And I disagree it was a reasonable hire. After the gulutzan debacle it was imperative that he interview people, cast a wide net and hire the best, most experienced and winningest coach available. But he chose a different path. That's on him.

[Sainters7]

Haven't read much of the thread aside from the first few responses so this is just at the article itself, but I strongly disagree. His in-game management is worrisome, especially late in a game. I do however hope he can be retained and placed back in his original position, or at least somewhere on the coaching staff. I think him just being fired and left to walk would be a little unfair, given the circumstances.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Bingo

These arguments always seem pointless to me.

If Treliving has Ward say 4th on his current list, but all tire kickings with Laviolette, Gallant and say Boundreau have suggested none of them will come to Calgary wouldn't result in any information coming our way on what actually went down.

The assumption (and 12 page argument) would be Treliving didn't look into anything, when actually he tried, was turned down, but had little to gain to extend Ward with a press conference saying this is the best we could do.

BB had always had positive things to say about the Calgary Flames, I don't think he would have any problem coming here whatsoever.