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Old 12-02-2019, 11:27 PM   #41
Rando
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When will this #### end

Snowflake generation finally taking over
Can I come to your office and slap you around a bit? Little kick even?
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:02 AM   #42
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Can I come to your office and slap you around a bit? Little kick even?
If you were both hockey players you could punch him in the face...might get a minor penalty though

the NHL is not like your office
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:19 AM   #43
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It’s still abusive behaviour by a superior towards his employees and shouldn’t be tolerated. Doesn’t matter if it’s ‘the culture.’ It’s still a workplace and that stuff is not only inappropriate, it’s illegal.

If my boss was found to have abused employees in her previous job, she’d be canned immediately. There would likely be some kind of legal repercussions as well. Why does sports get a pass?

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Should the people who were the abusers get the opportunity to change in these cases? Take things like OHS. If OHS laws change as a result of an injury you dont retroactively go back and fine people who weren’t previously obeying the new law. Now the counter to that would be kicking your employees has always been illegal which while true it really depends on how ingrained the behaviour was.

If these incidents led to complaints that were covered up then that is far worse than this was how most NHL coaches behaved. If it remains at 4 or 5 current and former coaches then one could say they crossed the line and should be gone but if we are talking all 100 or so coaches in the NHL and another 100 in the AHL then you can’t get rid of them all and the focus should be going forward.
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:26 AM   #44
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I doubt that. It is 100% based on current employment.
The first guys to get it will be the ones who are still employed. Than it will move to guys like Daryl Sutter who might have landed another job, than it will be the Keenan types who are out of the game but still alive.
That's not really what I am getting at. My point was that those who are employed and are under scrutiny now are probably also the same coaches whose reputations continue to follow them around. Unlike coaches like Keenan or Tortorella who have been pretty open about the necessity of changing to meet the needs of players in today's NHL, I would warrant that the guys who are being outed now are the ones who have not shown any capacity for change.
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:44 AM   #45
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Who’s going to be coach of the Avalanche, Blackhawks, Blue Jackets, Blues, Bruins, Canadiens, Canucks, Capitals, Coyotes, Devils, Ducks, Flyers, Golden Knights, Hurricanes, Islanders, Jets, Kings, Leafs, Lightning, Oilers, Panthers, Penguins, Predators, Rangers, Red Wings, Sabres, Senators, Sharks, Stars, or Wild next season?
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:50 AM   #46
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I don’t know how many of you knew, but Marc Crawford continued to hold a weekly radio spot on TSN 1040 for years after he coached in Vancouver. Even while he was coaching recently in Ottawa Jake Edwards had him on his Saturday show every week.
I knew that Vancouver was no good.

I also know that Edmonton is no good and now Holland is there.
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:51 AM   #47
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Who kicks people? Like at least man up and use your fists.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:06 AM   #48
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Bruce Lee kicked people.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:06 AM   #49
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the NHL is not like your office
Who cares? He's a rough a tumble guy, not part of this weak generation. I'd like motivate him by slapping him upside the head.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:07 AM   #50
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If you were both hockey players you could punch him in the face...might get a minor penalty though

the NHL is not like your office
Why are you continuing to ignore the power imbalance between a coach and players? I'm pretty sure this point has been made to you by others like 20 times in the last week already.

Consenting to fighting on the ice is not even remotely the same as having your coach kick you in the back or punch you in the head, especially since they can control how your career unfolds.

Literal NHL players are coming out and saying this #### was abusive and they didn't feel like they could speak up, but by all means continue to pretend being a professional hockey player means its a free for all and that's to be expected.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:28 AM   #51
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I really hate this 'Go back' justice that is becoming the norm, holding todays standards to days gone by. I am all for learning from the past, being better and improving the way we speak and behave to each other but trying to get someone to lose their job for a swift kick in the ass when your playing bad (which is the accusation from Avery only, regardless of what everyone else on here says they know about Crawford) , come on that just sounds like someone with an axe to grind. Life and sports at the highest level are hard and sometimes you need a good kick in the ass to get you going in the right direction.

I guess you can all say goodbye to these lovely winning coaches that everyone wants, as it wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't all been abusive ( a definition that seems to have new things added every day) at one time or another.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:48 AM   #52
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Were finally going to get to the bottom of why he didn't use Gretzky in the shootout?
Story goes Wayne didn't want to get slapped around if he missed
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:54 AM   #53
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I really hate this 'Go back' justice that is becoming the norm, holding todays standards to days gone by. I am all for learning from the past, being better and improving the way we speak and behave to each other but trying to get someone to lose their job for a swift kick in the ass when your playing bad (which is the accusation from Avery only, regardless of what everyone else on here says they know about Crawford) , come on that just sounds like someone with an axe to grind. Life and sports at the highest level are hard and sometimes you need a good kick in the ass to get you going in the right direction.

I guess you can all say goodbye to these lovely winning coaches that everyone wants, as it wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't all been abusive ( a definition that seems to have new things added every day) at one time or another.

The bolded part is 1) not true, and 2) watering down the term by ridiculing it. I have yet to see a situation during this movement where it's difficult to distinguish what is abuse and what is not. It's even mentioned just about all the time that a certain level of yelling, frustration, harsh language and so on is part of the game, but it's not really that difficult for anyone within reasonable values to understand when a line is crossed.

I would rather follow a league where the players do not have to live in fear of physical or psychological violence from people that are holding great power over them. Where people in power do not throw homophobic or racial slurs around like it's nobodys business. Where a "swift kick in the ass" is regarded as crossing the line, just as it is in the rest of society. I really don't see why this would be controversial.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:55 AM   #54
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Babcock, Crawford, Keenan.. these guys are psychopaths, they have a lot of common attributes for that diagnosis. Narcistic, self-centered, lack of empathy, obsession with self-presentation. It's almost like for these guys coaching was just a way to fulfil their narcistic needs.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:07 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by morgin View Post
Why are you continuing to ignore the power imbalance between a coach and players? I'm pretty sure this point has been made to you by others like 20 times in the last week already.

Consenting to fighting on the ice is not even remotely the same as having your coach kick you in the back or punch you in the head, especially since they can control how your career unfolds.

Literal NHL players are coming out and saying this #### was abusive and they didn't feel like they could speak up, but by all means continue to pretend being a professional hockey player means its a free for all and that's to be expected.
Look it goes both ways...pro sports is nothing like your Joe Blow lives so quit bringing it up.

I'm not the one who keeps saying "do such and such at your office" just the one who keeps shooting it down. Its apples and oranges

Sure there is a line but a pro sports coach certainly has more leeway than supervisor Ron at Walmart when it comes to tough love.

I mean Chelios was so upset with Babcock he signed 3 separate UFA deals to stay on his team
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:36 AM   #56
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Look it goes both ways...pro sports is nothing like your Joe Blow lives so quit bringing it up.

I'm not the one who keeps saying "do such and such at your office" just the one who keeps shooting it down. Its apples and oranges

Sure there is a line but a pro sports coach certainly has more leeway than supervisor Ron at Walmart when it comes to tough love.

I mean Chelios was so upset with Babcock he signed 3 separate UFA deals to stay on his team
Nope, we’re not in Kansas anymore Dorthy are you starting to pick that up?
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:46 AM   #57
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1201724365416681472

"very old allegations" ... irks me just as much as Peters' "a decade ago". As if that makes it any better.
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Old 12-03-2019, 07:55 AM   #58
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1201724365416681472

"very old allegations" ... irks me just as much as Peters' "a decade ago". As if that makes it any better.

I don't know. if I was verbally mean, and also shoved a coworkers 15 years ago I don't think I should l should be investigated now or fired from my current job.

it's tough to decide how far back you go to punish for conduct, and who get to decides what conduct merits it.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:04 AM   #59
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Marc Crawford is one of the best examples I can think of a pro athlete or coach who has a media personality and a real personality.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:24 AM   #60
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When I went to elementary school (80's) the "strap" was just getting phased out. It was a rural school so probably a bit behind the urban schools. When that was gone, if you really deserved it, the long soft chalk brushes may be used against you. I did see the shorter wooden backed chalk brushes thrown in the general direction of a poorly behaved student.

My point. None of this is acceptable anymore and rightfully so. But, all of those teachers weren't "investigated" either. It's going to be a long ugly road if the NHL has to investigate all coaches who brought out the "strap". I would hope it's pretty clear that method of motivation had better be dropped from any coaches play book in this day and age.

For you Millenials :

Spoiler!


Spoiler!

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