The Deal With Geoff Ward - Page 50 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

868904 · 03-02-2021, 03:14 PM

Given the lack of revenue and supposed reluctance of owners to pay fired coaches, I wonder if there is any rule against trading coaches?

Sometimes a change of scenery is good for both players and coaches.

I'd trade Ward for Green or Torterella.

1_Flames_Fan · 03-02-2021, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 868904

Given the lack of revenue and supposed reluctance of owners to pay fired coaches, I wonder if there is any rule against trading coaches?

Sometimes a change of scenery is good for both players and coaches.

I'd trade Ward for Green or Torterella.

I'd trade Ward for any coach whose last name didn't end with "ulutzan".

Goriders · 03-02-2021, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 868904

Given the lack of revenue and supposed reluctance of owners to pay fired coaches, I wonder if there is any rule against trading coaches?

Sometimes a change of scenery is good for both players and coaches.

I'd trade Ward for Green or Torterella.

What about trading owners?

Psytic · 03-02-2021, 03:48 PM

Anyone actually going to pay for tickets to this crap when they come back? They need to do something to give the fans hope. Fire Ward, make some trades. No one can keep watching this boring blow out hockey. Looch can go to bat for this guy all he wants but we pay to be entertained. The owners need to realize they are going to kill fan interest if they let this go all season. They will lose much more than just Ward's salary.

Ashasx · 03-02-2021, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

I'd trade Ward for any coach whose last name didn't end with "ulutzan".

I would trade Ward for Gulutzan in an instant.

868904 · 03-02-2021, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goriders

What about trading owners?

Why? They spend to the cap. They allowed Tre to expand the hockey ops department and the analytics.

There's nothing to suggest that the owners are cheaping out on coaching. It's easy to say that and blame the owners for not spending big dollars on a coach but that's completely inconsistent with the rest of their operations.

I don't buy that the owners aren't willing to spend on an elite coach. We've heard the rumours that the owners wanted to bring Darryl back to coach. The facts are that the team spends to the cap and signs free agents to big deals.

This mess in on the GM. He hired the inexperienced coaches. There's enough history from his days in Arizona to suggest that hiring inexperienced coaches is HIS preference and not mandated by the owners.

dissentowner · 03-02-2021, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I'd have to think that Treliving would have a good pulse from his leadership on the attributes of these coaches they've brought on, though.

They had the psychotic drill sergeant, the good communicator, the gruff and tumble farm boy (ALA the Sutter mold), and now they've got a tactitioner/player's coach.

4 very different coaching methods to evaluate from. I draw more from that than their collective inexperience as HC, as at least we see entirely different approaches failing in their own rights.

Referring to Geoff Ward as a tactitioner is like referring to the Grand Canyon as a ditch.

IamNotKenKing · 03-02-2021, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Can't go back to Darryl as the GM but I would be open to him coaching the team. I can't imagine Treliving would welcome this as Darryl won't be afraid to question Treliving's process.

Tree is not so fragile as to want only yes men around him. He wants and seeks push back and questions. This suggestion to the contrary is not based on fact.

Cowtownred · 03-02-2021, 04:19 PM

Wills backing his buddy Ward, on the fan right now!

Infinit47 · 03-02-2021, 04:20 PM

I think it's quite telling the role guys who were brought in are all playing like trash. Significantly worse than with their previous teams. I doubt guys like Nordstrom and Simon are taking shifts off or not trying. They are bubble guys who will do anything to stay in the league. I have no doubt they are doing exactly what Ward is telling them...yet somehow they have become worse here.

We have a head coach here who got his only two head coaching gigs in North America because the head coach position above him was vacated mid season. Once because Julien was promoted to the NHL and once because of the Peters fiasco.

It's completely reasonable to question if this guy is helping or hurting the team.

Infinit47 · 03-02-2021, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Tree is not so fragile as to want only yes men around him. He wants and seeks push back and questions. This suggestion to the contrary is not based on fact.

His history of coach hirings would indicate that he doesn't want an established coach who can push back on him.

Psytic · 03-02-2021, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Tree is not so fragile as to want only yes men around him. He wants and seeks push back and questions. This suggestion to the contrary is not based on fact.

I wish Tre would prove us wrong with a solid coaching hire. Im willing to be wrong.

Bingo · 03-02-2021, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinit47

His history of coach hirings would indicate that he doesn't want an established coach who can push back on him.

You don't consider Peters established?

Was picked by Canada to be head coach of a world championship team, and was an assistant coach at the World Cup.

868904 · 03-02-2021, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

You don't consider Peters established?

Was picked by Canada to be head coach of a world championship team, and was an assistant coach at the World Cup.

I think Peters could have been a decent hire. He did lead them to 107 points. He faltered badly in the playoffs but in his fairness, that was his first crack the playoffs.

He MIGHT have turned it around the next season, unfortunately, his past caught up with him and we will never know.

From an outside perspective, he looked like a head coach.

My problem with Tre is he knew what kind of coach this core needed after GG, and that was a coach more like Peters, but then went back to a coach just like GG in Ward when Peters had to be let go. That is a GM not learning from his mistakes.

Infinit47 · 03-02-2021, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

You don't consider Peters established?

Was picked by Canada to be head coach of a world championship team, and was an assistant coach at the World Cup.

We had to wait to hire him until after he was fired for 4 years of no playoffs in Carolina. Their team got better as soon as he left.

I guess he is established the same way Gulutzan would be if someone else now hired him as a head coach. I did say earlier that I felt both Peters and Gulutzan were competent coaches, but I doubt either one would challenge Trelieving in the same way a Torts, Vingneualt, Boudreau, Gallant, or Babcock (for examples) would.

I don't think it's a money thing with owners, I don't think it's that hard to get a single winning coach here, so the only thing left is that Trelieving doesn't want someone who will challenge his empire. You see this all the time with terrible managers in Oil and Gas, and it's exactly what the Ward 2 year contract looked like to me.

868904 · 03-02-2021, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinit47

We had to wait to hire him until after he was fired for 4 years of no playoffs in Carolina. Their team got better as soon as he left.

I guess he is established the same way Gulutzan would be if someone else now hired him as a head coach. I did say earlier that I felt both Peters and Gulutzan were competent coaches, but I doubt either one would challenge Trelieving in the same way a Torts, Vingneualt, Boudreau, Gallant, or Babcock (for examples) would.

I don't think it's a money thing with owners, I don't think it's that hard to get a single winning coach here, so the only thing left is that Trelieving doesn't want someone who will challenge his empire. You see this all the time with terrible managers in Oil and Gas, and it's exactly what the Ward 2 year contract looked like to me.

I'll say this about 2 year contracts, I don't think you can really sign a coach to a 1 year contract and be a lame duck coach. So 2 years is really the bare minimum and also speaks volumes about how confident Treliving was in Ward. The question is, what's taking Tre so long to act now? Or maybe his power is being taken away from him to act. Maybe the owners have seen enough?

Infinit47 · 03-02-2021, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 868904

I'll say this about 2 year contracts, I don't think you can really sign a coach to a 1 year contract and be a lame duck coach. So 2 years is really the bare minimum and also speaks volumes about how confident Treliving was in Ward. The question is, what's taking Tre so long to act now? Or maybe his power is being taken away from him to act. Maybe the owners have seen enough?

I wasn't very clear. I mean hiring Ward at all looked like he was hiring someone who couldn't challenge him.

mrdonkey · 03-02-2021, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I would trade Ward for Gulutzan in an instant.

I think I'd rather just die than have to live with the outcome of such a decision.

Jiri Hrdina · 03-02-2021, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I think it's quite telling the role guys who were brought in are all playing like trash. Significantly worse than with their previous teams. I doubt guys like Nordstrom and Simon are taking shifts off or not trying. They are bubble guys who will do anything to stay in the league. I have no doubt they are doing exactly what Ward is telling them...yet somehow they have become worse here.

We have a head coach here who got his only two head coaching gigs in North America because the head coach position above him was vacated mid season. Once because Julien was promoted to the NHL and once because of the Peters fiasco.

It's completely reasonable to question if this guy is helping or hurting the team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinit47

His history of coach hirings would indicate that he doesn't want an established coach who can push back on him.

Across these things you are looking for things to confirm something you have already decided. I'm not saying Ward is a good coach but there is a whole lotta confirmation bias happening here.

Bingo · 03-02-2021, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinit47

We had to wait to hire him until after he was fired for 4 years of no playoffs in Carolina. Their team got better as soon as he left.

I guess he is established the same way Gulutzan would be if someone else now hired him as a head coach. I did say earlier that I felt both Peters and Gulutzan were competent coaches, but I doubt either one would challenge Trelieving in the same way a Torts, Vingneualt, Boudreau, Gallant, or Babcock (for examples) would.

I don't think it's a money thing with owners, I don't think it's that hard to get a single winning coach here, so the only thing left is that Trelieving doesn't want someone who will challenge his empire. You see this all the time with terrible managers in Oil and Gas, and it's exactly what the Ward 2 year contract looked like to me.

Well you're more than welcome to your opinion.

Doesn't fit with what I've heard and seen from Trelving at all.

Peters was anything but a pushover, and had a lot more resume than you're giving him credit for.

Honestly ... I don't think Ward was his first choice as I've said earlier.