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Old 04-28-2020, 09:50 AM   #21
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There are a lot of first hand accounts of Navy pilots all telling the same story about these objects.
Sure I'd expect them all to tell the same story since they're aware of how others have told similar stories when viewing similar phenomenon; that's how human brains work.

It's still an unexplained phenomenon and making unwarranted assumptions about it can lead to unwarranted conclusions.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:54 AM   #22
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Some good listening on first-hand pilot accounts was actually covered on the Joe Rogan podcast. Commander David Fravor - the pilot who had the close encounter with the "tic tac UFO" object seen in the Nimitz video - covers his account quite well.

Ignore Jeremy Corbell, he's a bit of a drama king with UFO stuff, but Fravor is an interesting listen.

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Old 04-28-2020, 10:12 AM   #23
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The best thing about all this new information coming out:
We can now all agree that flying objects with incredible capabilities exist in our skies. That fact is now indisputable.

So WTF are they?!!



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Old 04-28-2020, 10:20 AM   #24
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Cool drones

Seriously though, it's one thing to believe other intelligent life forms exist on other planets but to think they broke all laws of physics to visit us is beyond belief.
We already have some understanding of how interstellar travel could work without breaking the laws of physics

https://cosmosmagazine.com/the-futur...ges-warp-drive
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Old 04-28-2020, 10:51 AM   #25
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I firmly believe that there is life out there at various stages of technology and evolution, I don't know if I firmly believe that that have made a habit of visiting here.



I still go back to the impossibility of space and distance. I mean we're less then a pinprick in a infinite sized clutter of pinpricks. Even with things like radio intercepts, and alien culture might receive something from our world and not even know that its a sign of intelligent life. Who knows, they might not even be listening on the frequencies that we're beaming on, or the concept of things like radio waves are incomprehensible to them.


At the same time, and the article above talks about it, while there's a possibility of warp drive or moving bubbles of space time out there, the energy demands to do it are still defined as future tech.



Beyond the need of being able to do warp travel, there is always going to be the problem of navigation, you can't just send a ship hurdling at fantastic speeds in a direction even if you find a possible intelligent species out there. The chances of getting there without knowing the road map and navigating safely are impossible to predict. Frankly while we envision space as this enormous vacuum, there are effects out there that would disrupt any notion of easy and safe travel.


So how do we explain the UFO's in the video.



To me it could be as simple as something naturally occurring that we haven't discovered yet. Science and understanding change all the time. Maybe today's UFO is tomorrows energy flux or gravitational phenomenon or a unknown weather system or whatever.


Or it could be the alien version of Billy Bob who got drunk on some space beer took a left turn and that would explain the flying style and we he got here he and his buddies parked their space pick up truck and mutilated some cows and did some anal probing because its hilarious.


And even if a highly evolved race showed up, would we even recognize it or even see it as life? Would they?
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Old 04-28-2020, 11:20 AM   #26
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Sure I'd expect them all to tell the same story since they're aware of how others have told similar stories when viewing similar phenomenon; that's how human brains work.

It's still an unexplained phenomenon and making unwarranted assumptions about it can lead to unwarranted conclusions.
That wasn't always the case, some people independently told their stories and they were corroborated after. A lot of them kept their stories to themselves for a long time either because they were ordered to, or it was out of fear of being ostracized as a loonie.

These are people that are trusted with flying machines worth hundred of millions of dollars. I would think their skill set for identifying objects and marking distance and speed would be rigorously trained and largely free of bias.

If you don't want to make unwarranted assumptions about UFOs, then you can't really say anything about them. The most basic explanation is this is secret technology from Lockheed (or similar group), but even that becomes a pretty zany story when you try and wrap your head around how they acquired this technology and why are they revealing it this way.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:00 PM   #27
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Covid19 came from aliens. It’s just easier to digest if they tell us it came from China
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:11 PM   #28
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That wasn't always the case, some people independently told their stories and they were corroborated after. A lot of them kept their stories to themselves for a long time either because they were ordered to, or it was out of fear of being ostracized as a loonie.
I didn't mean that they worked together on their stories, I mean their framework for explaining things is based on what they know, from society, from their existing beliefs, etc. In a different time or a different society in different circumstances they'd choose ghosts or angels or some other explanation for the phenomenon.

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These are people that are trusted with flying machines worth hundred of millions of dollars. I would think their skill set for identifying objects and marking distance and speed would be rigorously trained and largely free of bias.
Doesn't matter, they're still human and still vulnerable to all the fallacies and inadequacies of the human senses and brain.

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If you don't want to make unwarranted assumptions about UFOs, then you can't really say anything about them. The most basic explanation is this is secret technology from Lockheed (or similar group), but even that becomes a pretty zany story when you try and wrap your head around how they acquired this technology and why are they revealing it this way.
But you're still making an assumption that they're a technology at all, they could be an optical phenomenon or a system artifact or any other number of things.. things that seem really unlikely and beyond consideration until someone demonstrates its strange but still mundane explanation.

Magic works because humans are really bad at coming up with alternative explanations for what they experience.. even highly trained magicians can be fooled by something they've not experienced before.

But what you say is true... "If you don't want to make unwarranted assumptions about UFOs, then you can't really say anything about them."

"I don't know" is a better explanation than "I don't know therefore aliens."

If I find a hoof print in the dirt, it could be a horse, a zebra escaped from the zoo, or a unicorn. I can't eliminate the possibility that it's a unicorn entirely, but I'm not going to put a lot of effort into that line of thought without extraordinary levels of evidence to support the extraordinary claim.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:22 PM   #29
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It's clearly a fly on the camera.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:36 PM   #30
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I didn't mean that they worked together on their stories, I mean their framework for explaining things is based on what they know, from society, from their existing beliefs, etc. In a different time or a different society in different circumstances they'd choose ghosts or angels or some other explanation for the phenomenon.



Doesn't matter, they're still human and still vulnerable to all the fallacies and inadequacies of the human senses and brain.



But you're still making an assumption that they're a technology at all, they could be an optical phenomenon or a system artifact or any other number of things.. things that seem really unlikely and beyond consideration until someone demonstrates its strange but still mundane explanation.

Magic works because humans are really bad at coming up with alternative explanations for what they experience.. even highly trained magicians can be fooled by something they've not experienced before.

But what you say is true... "If you don't want to make unwarranted assumptions about UFOs, then you can't really say anything about them."

"I don't know" is a better explanation than "I don't know therefore aliens."

If I find a hoof print in the dirt, it could be a horse, a zebra escaped from the zoo, or a unicorn. I can't eliminate the possibility that it's a unicorn entirely, but I'm not going to put a lot of effort into that line of thought without extraordinary levels of evidence to support the extraordinary claim.
Just curious, are you skeptical on whether or not these flying things exist, whatever they may be?

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Old 04-28-2020, 01:01 PM   #31
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I'm personally very skeptical that what is being observed is of intelligent extra-terrestrial origin.

It doesn't make sense that an intelligent civilization would come all the way here just to hang out off shore enough to allow some people to see it, but not make contact. Either they want to be seen or they don't, and if they have the technology to come here, they would surely have the technology to observe us without us knowing if that is what they wanted. I can't believe that they would be smart enough to come here, but then get caught off guard and spooked by us.

All we have are eye witness accounts from a small number of people and grainy video that looks filtered though layers of software. Neither are very reliable.
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Old 04-28-2020, 01:06 PM   #32
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While these videos may or may not be explainable, why is it so hard to believe that there could possibly be other terrestrials out there that have millions or billions of years of advanced technology, knowledge and understanding of science and physics on us?

Earth and mankind are but a mere, and relatively new, particle of sand in a massive, massive galaxy. Thinking we have all the answers because of what we currently know to date is just arrogant.
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Old 04-28-2020, 01:34 PM   #33
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But you're still making an assumption that they're a technology at all, they could be an optical phenomenon or a system artifact or any other number of things.. things that seem really unlikely and beyond consideration until someone demonstrates its strange but still mundane explanation.
While I can accept the possibility of it being natural phenomena, but then we're talking about a phenomena that has the properties of fooling radar, fooling skilled visual experts and moves in a very unnatural way. It would be incredibly unlikely that some unknown natural phenomena possesses all those qualities and your left with a theory that isn't really any more or less credible than some of the other UFO theories.

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"I don't know" is a better explanation than "I don't know therefore aliens."
I already gave my reasons why I don't think it's aliens, it's just that there is no really credible theory, so we're left guessing which one of the crazy theories is true. I think it's an interesting mental exercise, but I can't confidently say what I think is going on with UFOs.
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Old 04-28-2020, 02:44 PM   #34
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While I can accept the possibility of it being natural phenomena, but then we're talking about a phenomena that has the properties of fooling radar, fooling skilled visual experts and moves in a very unnatural way. It would be incredibly unlikely that some unknown natural phenomena possesses all those qualities and your left with a theory that isn't really any more or less credible than some of the other UFO theories.



I already gave my reasons why I don't think it's aliens, it's just that there is no really credible theory, so we're left guessing which one of the crazy theories is true. I think it's an interesting mental exercise, but I can't confidently say what I think is going on with UFOs.
My guess is that it is some kind of advanced technology being tested by the military and Fravor (and others) were used as guinea pigs to measure conventional technology and human responses to it if they don't know what they are encountering. To be a test group, they couldn't know the nature of the experiment.

Then someone leaked the video and the last thing the U.S. military probably wants anyone to know is that they have some new radical technology, so they are going with the secret UFO program narrative.

I also tend to be wary of eye witness reports. I suspect some things get exaggerated.
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Old 04-28-2020, 02:45 PM   #35
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I know a TIE Fighter when I see one.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1255235443614003203



Dammit Hamill!

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Old 04-28-2020, 03:09 PM   #36
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Sure I'd expect them all to tell the same story since they're aware of how others have told similar stories when viewing similar phenomenon; that's how human brains work.

It's still an unexplained phenomenon and making unwarranted assumptions about it can lead to unwarranted conclusions.
How do you explain away what crew members on the Nimitz saw on their radar screens when tracking these objects and their movements?
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Old 04-28-2020, 03:25 PM   #37
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I want to ask you some questions based on theories that America’s armchair skeptics have put forward — like whether it was birds, or whether it was some sort of thermal weather event. I mean, I’m sure you have had enough flight time that you’ve seen birds.

Yup. Birds normally fly close to the surface of the ground. So, for example, you’re not going to see birds flying at 5,000 feet. You’re going to see them more down at like 2,000 feet and below, like down to the surface. That’s just kind of how birds normally operate. And they’re typically not alone. So you can you can physically see them, in a flock or whatever. You don’t see birds at 5,000 or 10,000 or 20,000 feet. That’s just not how birds operate. So birds are out of the question.

And just so that I anticipate your next question: There are weather balloons that people launch, but this was not a weather balloon — because a balloon, it just ascends and floats from low to high altitude; it doesn’t behave erratically. I mean, it’s just a damn balloon. So that was out of the question.

It wasn’t — to the best of my knowledge — a cruise missile or any other kind of test aircraft that we possibly may have not known about, just because of the way it was behaving. Like I said, it was just very erratic. It would go from like 50 feet off the ground, which when you’re out in the open ocean, you know, off the coast of San Diego, it looked like it was just hovering over the water. But there was no method of propulsion that was keeping it airborne: no wings, no heat, keeping it airborne or aloft.

Have you ever seen a weather event on an ATFLIR?

I would say if I captured this object on my sensors independently, like I was the only one that saw it or tracked it, I might have blown it off as something like a weather event. But the amount of people and sensors from other independent sources who found it — given the time period Dave Fravor saw it, and an hour and a half later I went out and saw it, and we captured basically an object with the same description — leads me to believe that a weather event would be unlikely.
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From looking at the video at the time and more recently, do you get a sense as to how much heat this thing was giving off?

Well, normally, you would see engines emitting a heat plume. This object was not doing that. The video shows a source of heat, but the normal signatures of an exhaust plume were not there. There was no sign of propulsion. You could not see the thing that the ATFLIR pod should pick up 100 percent of the time: the source of heat and exhaust that a normal object flying would give you

Former Navy F/A-18 fighter pilot Vincent “Jell-O” Aiello expressed a similar reaction to the object in the FLIR1 video during a telephone interview. “Where it looks different to me is that it has no wings like an aircraft, and there’s no perceptible heat signature from the engines or from intakes like an aircraft,” he said. “If you’re close enough to an actual aircraft and you’re tracking it, you can see heat spots at different places either leading edges of wings, where it’s hotter because of friction, or exhaust ports from where bleed air comes out, and, of course, the actual exhaust of the engines themselves.”
. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does.

Like, no method of propulsion or exhaust — and the exhaust part of it was the thing that kind of made me raise my eyebrows and be like, “Okay, this is interesting.”
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...underwood.html
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:12 PM   #38
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Just curious, are you skeptical on whether or not these flying things exist, whatever they may be?
I don't have much evidence that they're even flying things vs artifacts or optical phenomenon or something else I people haven't thought of, and even if they are then there's still implicit assumptions being made (i.e. something that looks fast and large far away vs something something slow, close and small).

The mind doesn't like things being unexplained, but sometimes we just have to leave it at that until more information is available.

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why is it so hard to believe that there could possibly be other terrestrials out there that have millions or billions of years of advanced technology, knowledge and understanding of science and physics on us?
Not hard at all, but given the lack of data it's difficult to know what the likelihood of that is. And there's also a big jump from life to multi-cellular life. What's the chance of that.. we may find single cellular type life elsewhere in our own solar system. Or is it once per solar system per million years? Once per galaxy per billion years?

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I already gave my reasons why I don't think it's aliens, it's just that there is no really credible theory, so we're left guessing which one of the crazy theories is true. I think it's an interesting mental exercise, but I can't confidently say what I think is going on with UFOs.
Agree, all I do know is how credible evidence should look and how nothing passes muster as of yet. I have to do with these videos the same as I do with a magic trick I haven't figured out.. sure real magic might exist, but until I've got more proof I'll temporarily maintain the position that it's got a mundane explanation but I haven't (and may never) figure it out.
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Old 04-28-2020, 08:30 PM   #39
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Mick West has released videos with plausible explanations for the phenomena seen in these videos. He just put out this summary in reaction to the official release but there are full length videos on his channel.



Video doesn’t always capture reality. Rolling shutter, bokeh, lens abberation and other defects can make objects appear different. FLIR is susceptible to changes in heat so it can’t be trusted to show an object’s shape, size or orientation.

I’d love to see proof of visitors from other planets but the best we’ve got so far is speculation.
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Old 04-29-2020, 01:01 AM   #40
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Mick West has released videos with plausible explanations for the phenomena seen in these videos. He just put out this summary in reaction to the official release but there are full length videos on his channel.



Video doesn’t always capture reality. Rolling shutter, bokeh, lens abberation and other defects can make objects appear different. FLIR is susceptible to changes in heat so it can’t be trusted to show an object’s shape, size or orientation.
other pilots
I’d love to see proof of visitors from other planets but the best we’ve got so far is speculation.
There's the video but there's also the comments from David Fravor and 3 other pilots who saw these objects up close with their naked eyes and what they did for over five minutes. I want to see the author of that video explain that.

Fravor is a Top Gun with 16 years of experience flying for the Navy. I can't think of a more credible witness for an event like this.

To be clear i'm not suggesting the objects are from other planets. It troubles me how quickly people are willing to dismiss what Fravor and his other pilots saw. Maybe it's because we need a quick answer to what we can't explain.

I encourage all to watch and listen to his interview and then form your own opinions.

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