"Me Too"

[octothorp]

It's difficult to point this out without committing the very problem I'm pointing out. But the big problem with men using the #metoo is that inevitably takes up an oversized space in the conversation. The debating about the male perspective shouts down the indisputable reality that sexual harrasment and assault against women is more widespread than most of us think. That's where the attention should be, and once we've started to find effective solutions to that, we can address less widespread problems.

[V]

Originally Posted by Grimbl420

Because it's been made abundantly clear that men are not welcome to share their abuse stories with the Me Too moniker, and I'm standing up for those men.

This all really kicked off with this post, and yet there's still been absolutely no proof of the claim.

You want to have an honest conversation, well, tell us honestly how your point has been made so abundantly clear. I've heard the opposite is true, but I'm really interested in your side of this discussion.

[Grimbl420]

Originally Posted by V

This all really kicked off with this post, and yet there's still been absolutely no proof of the claim.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Is there a purer representation of the fragile, aggrieved and desperate male ego than reacting to the #metoo campaign with complaints that it's not gender neutral?

Men are fragile and desperate for wanting inclusion in the conversation.

on the very first page of this thread there's a post from the op suggesting men should not share because it diminishes the conversation.

must just be blind ignorance i guess.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Grimbl420

Men are fragile and desperate for wanting inclusion in the conversation.

on the very first page of this thread there's a post from the op suggesting men should not share because it diminishes the conversation.

must just be blind ignorance i guess.

I have to admit it's pretty awful that the mods keep locking all the male-centric threads you keep starting.

[Grimbl420]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I have to admit it's pretty awful that the mods keep locking all the male-centric threads you keep starting.

again with the personal attacks instead of any actual intellectual contribution.

[PsYcNeT]

If there was an intellectual conversation rather than this sad derail to contribute to, you would have a point.

As it stands, once again a thread about women's issues has become about men. Sky is blue, water is wet, etc. etc. etc.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Grimbl420

Men are fragile and desperate for wanting inclusion in the conversation.

on the very first page of this thread there's a post from the op suggesting men should not share because it diminishes the conversation.

must just be blind ignorance i guess.

That is not the interpretation that I took from his post. I read it as more of a don't go and turn this into a "you're not the only ones" conflict.

If you had a sincere interest in sharing an experience in#metoo, I saw no evidence of that being frowned upon or ridiculed. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything resembling that, unless it took that MRA kind of slant.

[Party Elephant]

Grimbl420, do you have a link or a screenshot of a male being attacked for posting a sexual abuse story? It's a lot easier to discuss specifics rather than hypothetical. Personally I haven't seen any examples of this on Facebook or in this thread.

[EldrickOnIce]

For the most part, 'we' (white males) will never understand others' everyday experiences of institutional 'isms/phobias.
The easy part then, for me, is to listen and try to learn. The hard part is knowing what to do/say.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

For the most part, 'we' (white males) will never understand others' everyday experiences of institutional 'isms/phobias.
The easy part then, for me, is to listen and try to learn. The hard part is knowing what to do/say.

Exactly.

As I noted in the...second? post in this thread, most women just want you to listen to their experience and how it has affected them. They really aren't expecting you to do anything or have much input, trying to understand and not making it about you is enough.

[Grimbl420]

It absolutely shocks me to see so many people defend exclusion, and do if from the stand point that their furthering social progress. Like I said before there are many of you here that need to reassess your biases.

[Minnie]

[PepsiFree]

Poster knows how to use the quote function, can’t quote one post that criticisizes a man who shared his story of sexual abuse.

Definitely no ulterior motives here.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

And here we have your stated purpose in this thread.

Protecting those fictitious men who don't feel welcome in the conversation.

By my read, a majority of the posters in this thread are men and have felt more than welcome to come in and empathize and discuss.

But let's be honest as to why you've stridently marched into this thread to defend a non issue. You're feeling vulnerable by a topic that's uncomfortable and difficult to process for some men.

Originally Posted by Wormius

Any links to some stories on #metoo from men that were unjustly criticized just because they were shared by men? The only ones that I saw get any criticism was when somebody was trying to turn it into a debate about gender fairness.

I've seen only two examples of men who came forward about being victims of harassment/assault around the same time as all of this Weinstein news.

Terry Crews and James Van Der Beek. Both were lauded as brave for coming forward with their stories, which should encourage male victims to come forward as well.

I have seen literally zero examples of actual male victims being shouted down or excluded.

But bringing up the general "hey hey but men have it hard too!" without being an actual victim or even having actual proof of a male victim being demonized is merely looking for a reason to derail the discussion away from its actual intent--to expose the fact that harassment and assault is terrifyingly common, to shed light on how many women are victims. The men I've seen speak out as actual victims have been treated with just as much validity and respect as the women who have spoken out.

But if you're just looking to start an argument without any real examples, you're going to get an argument. This is a very real, raw subject for literally millions of women, so obviously you're going to get pushback if you're merely looking for an excuse to make it all about how unfair it is to men.

So by all means, if you have a hard example of a male victim who has shared his story, who was treated badly, please share it so we can see.

[northcrunk]

Rob Scheider has also come out with his experiences. He said it was a very famous director who is dead now.

[Grimbl420]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Poster knows how to use the quote function, can’t quote one post that criticisizes a man who shared his story of sexual abuse.

Definitely no ulterior motives here.

I've pointed it out in this very thread, but the power to make the blind see is sadly one lack.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Grimbl420

I've pointed it out in this very thread, but the power to make the blind see is sadly one lack.

Give us one single example in this thread or otherwise of a male victim sharing his experience and being mocked or degraded or excluded. Not fictitional "well guys deal with..." strawmen.

An actual victim who shared a firsthand account where the victim was treated badly. Show us where this happened.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Grimbl420

I've pointed it out in this very thread, but the power to make the blind see is sadly one lack.

One arguable post in this thread alone then that was 17 pages ago? You made it sound like it was an epidemic on Twitter with poor guys getting dumped on after sharing their stories.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Grimbl420

I've pointed it out in this very thread, but the power to make the blind see is sadly one lack.

No, you’ve pointed out people criticising those who are complaining that it is not gender neutral enough. And, again, the reason that’s happening is because there’s been no evidence that men aren’t welcome to share their stories about sexual abuse.

Is it not strange to you that only you see this transgression, and even you aren’t able to point out evidence of it? Read what Tinordi said again, it wasn’t directed towards men sharing their stories of sexual abuse, it was directed at men who complain about problems with the movement without evidence of that problem existing. That’s obvious.

[wittynickname]

I think there's a disconnect here, because of the fact that "harassment" is included, certain people think that most of these #metoo claims are "oh some guy told me I had a great rack at a bar and I was offended."

I'm sure there are some of those as well, but most of the #metoo experiences from the women I know are far, far worse.

My mother was between the ages of 10 and 13 when she was molested by her father and two adult cousins.

My sister was drugged and assaulted while out drinking with a group of supposed friends, who then dropped her off--underwear stuck on her head rather than on her body where they started the night--at 4 am.

A co-worker had a boyfriend get her super drunk and took her virginity--filmed it and then showed said video to all of his friends.

Another co-worker was roofied at a bar, but fortunately her friends got her out of there before she was a "real" victim.

A friend was in the process of marriage counseling, trying to save her relationship, when she woke one morning to her husband already in the process of having sex with her.

Another friend had an ex-boyfriend who was violently abusive, who she'd have sex with solely so she didn't get beat up.

I've had friends who have been hit on or groped on the train home after work, and when they've tried to decline, have had their safety threatened to the point where they got off at a busier, different stop with better lighting or more security presence just because they're terrified that their harasser will do far worse than call them a b**** or a slut or whatever.

This is not "oh some ugly guy hit on me at a club and I didn't like it." That is not what this is about. Do men regularly walk to their car in the evening with car keys between their fingers in case someone attacks them, they can do maximum damage with a single punch? Have they learned the best way to get away from someone attacking from behind so he can incapacitate them and run for help? When he goes on a blind/Tinder/Bumble date, does he get in touch with several friends/family members to make them aware of where he's going, when he should be home, what time to call to for a safety check, etc, because he's afraid he won't be safe?

These are real things that women think about on a daily basis.