04-12-2021, 11:33 AM
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#41
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Franchise Player
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The value of these free agents isn't ONLY in their ability to make the NHL. Of course you hope that they continue to develop and make the NHL.
I have always thought that it is helpful to develop your prospects in the AHL if you have a solid AHL team with a healthy dose of competition, and other talented players to help one another make and finish plays. If your AHL team is rather barren, it is tough for a skilled guy to continue developing his skills, in a way.
Duehr doesn't sound like a flashy type of skilled player, but he sure sounds like a guy with some jam and a strong north-south game. Maybe he makes the NHL, maybe he doesn't, but he will help other prospects develop as well, so there is some value there too.
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04-12-2021, 11:35 AM
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#42
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
So Hathaway is the beginning and end of the list?
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If he is, then what is your point?
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04-12-2021, 11:36 AM
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#43
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
So Hathaway is the beginning and end of the list?
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By all reports Conner Mackey has had a solid first pro season and is taking on more and more responsibility.
I think it's highly likely he plays.
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04-12-2021, 11:38 AM
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#44
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: I don't belong here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
So Hathaway is the beginning and end of the list?
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The beginning of the list starts sometime in the 80s. Joel Otto.
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04-12-2021, 11:41 AM
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#45
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Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
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Hathaway wasn't a BT signing anyways. He was a Feaster signing.
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04-12-2021, 11:41 AM
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#46
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Dallas
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I remembered people got excited when the Flames signed Spencer Foo
After that I don’t care much about college signing
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04-12-2021, 11:47 AM
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#47
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesfan05
I remembered people got excited when the Flames signed Spencer Foo
After that I don’t care much about college signing
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We did collectively get too excited for Foo, as I recall. A good reminder that these are low ceiling/(almost) no cost signings.
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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04-12-2021, 11:52 AM
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#48
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesfan05
I remembered people got excited when the Flames signed Spencer Foo
After that I don’t care much about college signing
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Here are some of the players that have been signed out of college
Torey Krug
Dan Dekeyser
Brain Rafalski
Kevin Hayes
Brandon Tanev (Chris was also a free agent but out of junior I think)
Tyler Bozak
Nate Schmidt
Alex Iafallo
That's just off the top of my head. There are tons of others too. Signing a college free agent is no guarantee of success. Most, as with all prospects, won't make it. But it is a valid source of talent. You want your teams signing players. Just because one didn't work out doesn't mean you shouldn't care.
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04-12-2021, 11:53 AM
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#49
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesfan05
I remembered people got excited when the Flames signed Spencer Foo
After that I don’t care much about college signing
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Lordy ... you're just not a half glass full person are you?
So much negativity in almost what 95% of your posts?
How is that any fun as a fan?
Free agent signings aren't bad if they won't work out, they're free assets. You hope you hit large on one at some point, which the Flames certainly did decades ago, but getting a guy to play and some depth for your AHL team is never a bad thing.
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04-12-2021, 11:54 AM
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#50
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Here are some of the players that have been signed out of college
Torey Krug
Dan Dekeyser
Brain Rafalski
Kevin Hayes
Brandon Tanev (Chris was also a free agent but out of junior I think)
Tyler Bozak
Nate Schmidt
Alex Iafallo
That's just off the top of my head. There are tons of others too. Signing a college free agent is no guarantee of success. Most, as with all prospects, won't make it. But it is a valid source of talent. You want your teams signing players. Just because one didn't work out doesn't mean you shouldn't care.
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And closer to home I think Mackey looks to have a 5/6 defenseman floor.
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04-12-2021, 11:58 AM
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#51
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Franchise Player
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Another good recent one is Neil Pionk.
Signed by the Rangers and then used to help acquire Jacob Trouba.
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04-12-2021, 11:58 AM
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#52
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
Hathaway wasn't a BT signing anyways. He was a Feaster signing.
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Burke.
In fact, IIRC, it was Conroy who did the negotiations because they were only offering an AHL contract.
I remember a story Conroy told at a STH event where Burke asked him to handle the negotiations with Hathaway's agent. He offered a one-year AHL-only contract and the agent came back saying they had already received multiple NHL contract offers. Conroy told Burke and Burke said to tell the agent to hurry up and sign one of those NHL offers because he sure wasn't getting one from the Flames. Conroy did and the agent agreed to take the AHL deal.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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04-12-2021, 11:58 AM
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#53
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Here are some of the players that have been signed out of college
Torey Krug
Dan Dekeyser
Brain Rafalski
Kevin Hayes
Brandon Tanev (Chris was also a free agent but out of junior I think)
Tyler Bozak
Nate Schmidt
Alex Iafallo
That's just off the top of my head. There are tons of others too. Signing a college free agent is no guarantee of success. Most, as with all prospects, won't make it. But it is a valid source of talent. You want your teams signing players. Just because one didn't work out doesn't mean you shouldn't care.
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Hayes is in the drafted but didn't sign and became a UFA category, like Vesey, Schultz, and Reilly.
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04-12-2021, 12:05 PM
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#54
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Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
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Great write up on Duehr. Also video examples of his speed and strength.
https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/202...source=twitter
Quote:
So while I may not have listed Duehr as one of my top available in college hockey, after watching him pretty frequently over the past four seasons, my initial thought was ‘That makes a lot of sense’.
Here’s what I’ve seen out of Duehr that likely drew the interest of Calgary, and what one might expect from him as a pro going forward.
The first thing that I think most fans run to with a new signing is the stats page, where Duehr had a decent, but mostly unremarkable 10-7-17 scoring line in 28 games this season for Minnesota State, finishing sixth in team scoring on what was a very good Minnesota State team.
There are a couple things worth pointing out there. First is that Duehr finished the season incredibly hot. He was a point-per-game player over the final 11 games of the season for Minnesota State, including a goal and a beautiful assist in the national semifinals, which likely left a very good final impression on a team that was potentially interested in him coming into the season.
But more importantly, it’s worth pointing out that on a deep, experienced Minnesota State team, Duehr didn’t see any power play time this season, meaning all 17 of his points came at even strength. His 17 even strength points ranked tied for 17th nationally among undrafted free agents in college hockey, with the leaders on that list—Alex Steeves, Jordan Kawaguchi, Bobby Trivigno, and Odeen Tufto—all signing(eventually in the case of Trivigno) NHL free agents contracts this spring. So Duehr fares favorably in that regard.
And if we’re being honest, while some power play time and sexier stats may be nice, the undrafted college free agent market isn’t where you go shopping for high skill top-six NHL forwards. You’re generally going to get your best value finding good bottom-six depth forwards out of the older college group. Duehr shows potential to be really strong in that regard.
Duehr is every bit of the 6’2” 212 lbs. he is listed at, and is a terrific, powerful skater for his size.
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Last edited by sureLoss; 04-12-2021 at 12:09 PM.
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04-12-2021, 12:06 PM
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#55
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814
So Hathaway is the beginning and end of the list?
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I have no idea, I'm not the most knowledgable on player history. My point still stands. It's a prospect in the system that didn't cost anything to acquire. Why be mad about it?
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04-12-2021, 12:11 PM
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#56
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
Burke.
In fact, IIRC, it was Conroy who did the negotiations because they were only offering an AHL contract.
I remember a story Conroy told at a STH event where Burke asked him to handle the negotiations with Hathaway's agent. He offered a one-year AHL-only contract and the agent came back saying they had already received multiple NHL contract offers. Conroy told Burke and Burke said to tell the agent to hurry up and sign one of those NHL offers because he sure wasn't getting one from the Flames. Conroy did and the agent agreed to take the AHL deal.
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Yeah I was confused for a sec because CF showed his first NHL deal under Treliving.
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04-12-2021, 12:12 PM
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#57
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Dallas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Lordy ... you're just not a half glass full person are you?
So much negativity in almost what 95% of your posts?
How is that any fun as a fan?
Free agent signings aren't bad if they won't work out, they're free assets. You hope you hit large on one at some point, which the Flames certainly did decades ago, but getting a guy to play and some depth for your AHL team is never a bad thing.
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30+ yrs as a Flames fan did it to me
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04-12-2021, 12:16 PM
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#58
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Franchise Player
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I mean Gio and Martin St. Louis were UDFA, so Flames UDFA have had success in the NHL.
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04-12-2021, 12:17 PM
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#59
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesfan05
30+ yrs as a Flames fan did it to me
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Then you may remember Joel Otto and Colin Patterson. Hell, there's not much difference between these signings and signing undrafted Gio either.
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04-12-2021, 12:21 PM
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#60
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff
The beginning of the list starts sometime in the 80s. Joel Otto.
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Colin Patterson and Neil Sheehy were both signed a year before Otto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesfan05
I remembered people got excited when the Flames signed Spencer Foo
After that I don’t care much about college signing
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Yes, no one should get overly excited by these sorts of signings. You're not likely to find your franchise saviour in an undrafted college player.
I think the biggest reason people got over-excited about Foo was because he's from Edmonton and the smug Oilers fans thought it was foregone conclusion that he'd sign with them -- especially after their "playoff run" that season.
He also finished in the top 10 for the Hobey Baker that year, so there was some potential.
Duehr isn't at that level. Hopefully, he'll be a serviceable AHLer. If he becomes more than that, it's even better.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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