2019 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by browna

They’re cheap in the sense of very reluctant to spend the money they have when it could mean the difference. As I mentioned, 2014 the year before the first playoff run, they were very close to first at the all star break. In the preseason, the players, and seemingly AA, wanted an additional SP, Santana, but AA couldn’t get Rogers to cough up in time.
AA told the players that Rogers was committed to winning and money would be there at the trade deadline to add, if the team was in contention.

Well, they were in contention, leading the division. Rogers went radio silent, no money was forthcoming, and the pissed off team hit the skids late July and into August.

Again, AA basically had to promise to Rogers to quit the next season in order to get the trades for Tulo done, and the crown jewel in Price and his salary added at that deadline. Rogers, bringing in Shapiro before that season ended, was an additional FU to AA to make sure it was widely known that AA’s tenure was done before he actually was gone.

With these two smiling slick haired guys currently installed by, and seemingly very fitting of, a Rogers corporate type hire, they’re the last ones expected to be putting their jobs on the line to get thier Rogers bosses to get off the check book like AA had to do.p by putting his own neck on the line.

So, thus why I think they are cheap. Even when the case was clear that the Jays needed a boost and could well win the division, and could’ve been in the playoffs for 3 years,Rogers went back on an early season promise and lied to the roster and AA.

One thing I don't get is why did Rogers want AA out so badly? He's a very smart baseball exec and he's Canadian on top of all that.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

One thing I don't get is why did Rogers want AA out so badly? He's a very smart baseball exec and he's Canadian on top of all that.

I don't think they did... I do think they wanted Beeston out and replacing Beeston means bringing in someone who brings in a new power dynamic (which doesn't fly well with AA who signed on to operate under a different dynamic... hense why AA turned down the extension offer they gave him).

Ultimately, once they decided to replace Beeston the options were basically promote AA to Beeston's job or let him go.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by browna

They’re cheap in the sense of very reluctant to spend the money they have when it could mean the difference.

I dunno, I get the skittishness... AA had added a lot of money with little in the way of results at that time (2012: Payroll $83,739,200.00 - 2014 Payroll: $137,177,700.00) I think the team faceplanting after the Marlins and Dickey trades cost AA a lot of leeway with the money managers. And the thing about Rogers is that they're a corporation... they own the team to be a business that creates content and revenue for their networks, they're not an owner who owns the team as a vanity project. So they're rarely going to go hog wild in any particular off-season because corporations don't have egos... they have quarterly shareholder reports.

That's why Boras rags on the Jays more then most... because his sometimes M.O. is to bypass GM's and convince the vainglorious owner to dump a bunch of money on his guy. If he tried to bypass the Jays F.O. and go to Rogers the guy he'd get ahold of on the other line would say "who the eff are you?" and then refer him back to the Jays F.O. because he has telecommunication networks to manage. Maybe he'd get a hold of Eddie but the rest of the Board would probably just ask for the business case and it won't be there.

[Resolute 14]

One of the issues with Rogers being cheap is the fact that the Blue Jays are actually their own division within Rogers corporate. So as a consequence, the team itself has a duty to shareholders not to throw money away unnecessarily. They don't have to try to operate at a profit no matter what, but they can't decide to just go for it and take on huge red ink either.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

One of the issues with Rogers being cheap is the fact that the Blue Jays are actually their own division within Rogers corporate. So as a consequence, the team itself has a duty to shareholders not to throw money away unnecessarily. They don't have to try to operate at a profit no matter what, but they can't decide to just go for it and take on huge red ink either.

Is that a bad thing? It doesn't speak to being cheap, but more to spending at the right time. Aside from a handful of teams with special ownership or tv rights, no business wants to just throw money down the tubes. Spend wisely is a good way to keep in business. Fans will come back with a winning team. Until then, I have no problem with holding off for a season or two more until the time is right.

[browna]

Fair enough on the AA thing in 2012. Free agent splashes rarely work out right away, but Dickey was serviceable and a vet mentor, JJ had surgery after he left. Burhle more then serviceable as a vet and started in playoff year, and Reyes helped get Tulo, so it paid benefits in the playoff years.

Point still stands that him getting denied for a SP in 2014 in July meant the owners lied to, and tanked any playoff chances, for the team...the player that would bolster the roster and the confidence of the team in ownership.
AA had to play his final card in 2015 even if it meant him promising to walk the plank.

My issue is the last sentence of fleury right above me...as Rogers hired these guys to cut and gut, not sure these guys will have the ability and expectation to walk in to Rogers offices and demand $25m for a couple players at any point in the season or offseason, a)if they could, would they know the right timing and b)even if they wanted to, would Rogers want to listen to them, as the mandate for them isn’t to add, it’s to “develop”, and would an opportunity pass because these guys were incapable or unwilling to push the owners to add to the roster, if some fantastic player fell in their lap, or, the team completely over achieves for the first 3 or 4 months of next season?

Maybe it gets to a bigger point; I don’t think there is a baseball guy or truly interested person in baseball in the ownership group at Rogers, and a guy that is taking a true interest in the day to day or week to week goings on of the team. Outside of some normal semi monthly reporting on numbers and general state of the franchise that Shapiro gives them, the owners stay out of it and uninterested in the product and expect Shaprio and Atkins to chug along until the next meeting update. So the ”leave well enough alone” mentality sticks, and outside of waning attendance figures and revenues dropping, there isn’t a whole lot of urgency or anyone pushing the owners or owners pushing the other way, to make that risky on field baseball decision based on not just spending more money, but adding the right elements at the right times, to accelerate the winning process.

[Parallex]

He didn't have the year at the plate that he wanted I'm sure but Danny Jansen has to feel good about being a Gold Glove finalist as a rookie.

https://www.mlb.com/news/2019-gold-glove-finalists

[bluejays]

I found this interesting. Never been a fan of Stroman the outspoken player but there’s probably a lot more to this from a workplace environment perspective. https://apple.news/AzpbDqmWkQE6hEyn_tudPuw

[Parallex]

Blue Jays acquire SP Chase Anderson from Brewers in exchange for OF/1B Chad Spanberger.

Good deal. Legit MLB starting pitcher (albeit an unexceptional one) for a fringe bat only prospect is a deal you make every day of the week and twice on sundays.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah if he can be a reliable 4/5 for them for the next two seasons that's a great deal for them and really costs them nothing but money.

[bluejays]

I can't complain about this deal whatsoever as it appears to be a good value trade for a #5, BUT Atkins and Co. gotta make some much bigger moves this off-season than value deals.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by fleury

I can't complain about this deal whatsoever as it appears to be a good value trade for a #5, BUT Atkins and Co. gotta make some much bigger moves this off-season than value deals.

Not gonna happen. Not this year anyways... I'd expect another acquisition like this one and maybe the Jays make a play for the Japanese 1B that's expected to be posted by his NPO team but other then that I wouldn't hold my breath.

Last year was all about getting the young hitters feet wet and I imagine that this year will be about getting the young pitchers feet wet (I'd probably pencil Zeuch and Kaye into the starting rotation, and expect to see Pearson no sooner then after the all-star break). Dunedin should have a ballin' rotation thou.

I wager the Front Office isn't considering putting down major money until next offseason at the earliest (assuming the young guys don't take a step back).

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1191495125123375105

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Not gonna happen. Not this year anyways... I'd expect another acquisition like this one and maybe the Jays make a play for the Japanese 1B that's expected to be posted by his NPO team but other then that I wouldn't hold my breath.

Last year was all about getting the young hitters feet wet and I imagine that this year will be about getting the young pitchers feet wet (I'd probably pencil Zeuch and Kaye into the starting rotation, and expect to see Pearson no sooner then after the all-star break). Dunedin should have a ballin' rotation thou.

I wager the Front Office isn't considering putting down major money until next offseason at the earliest (assuming the young guys don't take a step back).

I agree. Plus I've said before I think they may be saving up for major stadium updates with the Rogers Centre itself as well as the surrounding area, so I could see a year or two before the wallet really opens. Plus with 5G infrastructure upgrades needed and the immense cash needed for that I could very easily see them treading lightly with their cash. However, I really strongly believe what they can't have is such a terrible starting rotation. I think that would be devastating for building a winning culture with the young players so even if they have to bring in a couple #3s on most teams and play them as #1's, I have no problem with that for now.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by fleury

I agree. Plus I've said before I think they may be saving up for major stadium updates with the Rogers Centre itself as well as the surrounding area, so I could see a year or two before the wallet really opens. Plus with 5G infrastructure upgrades needed and the immense cash needed for that I could very easily see them treading lightly with their cash. However, I really strongly believe what they can't have is such a terrible starting rotation. I think that would be devastating for building a winning culture with the young players so even if they have to bring in a couple #3s on most teams and play them as #1's, I have no problem with that for now.

What makes me you think they are saving up for a major Stadium renovation? They already cancelled the grass field they had promised their fans and players a few years ago, Rogers is getting destroyed financially by their NHL deal, and they are actively shopping the team on the market.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

What makes me you think they are saving up for a major Stadium renovation? They already cancelled the grass field they had promised their fans and players a few years ago, Rogers is getting destroyed financially by their NHL deal, and they are actively shopping the team on the market.

I'm not up on much Jays news, but this is amazing to see.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

I'm not up on much Jays news, but this is amazing to see.

The team won't sell. Any sale they make will have a requirement to stay with Sportsnet or to buy out of the horse#### deal they've signed the team too.

[Parallex]

Oh Rogers isn't selling the team... they'd have to either replace the content or pay market rate for the regional rights. Not gonna happen either way.

[flamingred89]

It’s true, such a pipe dream at this point. I thought when Ed Rogers Sr bought the team he was a fanboy. But turns out it was all for market capitalization. Now the team is probably worth north of a billion, and when you factor in a Rogers markup, there’s not a lot of potential suitors out there. MLSE? Thomson’s? Weston’s?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

What makes me you think they are saving up for a major Stadium renovation? They already cancelled the grass field they had promised their fans and players a few years ago, Rogers is getting destroyed financially by their NHL deal, and they are actively shopping the team on the market.

There's been sporadic news on it every few months but about two months back Shapiro said that when he originally signed on to be President he thought it would be a straightforward simple renovation. Then he said it's grown much much larger than that. They gave a few simple examples: many seats don't face the action on the field, so changing up the seats to face the proper direction would be a start (along with seats with cupholders). That'd be the basic. Next potentially rotating the complete orientation of the field whereby the batter is facing the CN tower (or where third is right now), as the current configuration is too symmetrical. Also they discussed having a fanzone along where the current first base line is. Those are some major changes. Then there's the land outside the dome and potentially making major changes to that where there may be an outdoor garden built all the way to the lakeshore. Some really interesting things they can do. The surrounding area has some major changes happening outside their scope in the next few years, and the worry is if they don't jump on board, people will spend their entertainment dollars in the surrounding areas and not in their place so they're forced to do something. Likely in conjunction with a major partnership if you ask me.