My what is the opposite? I haven't said anything even remotely similar to what you are making up and pretending to attribute to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
The accuser has no credibility. Her version of events shouldn't be given any credence at all.
You're instantly saying she has no credibility at all. While multiple times saying that her experience potentially evolved from bitterness, paranoia, and attention. That would be the opposite of instantly validating her experience that I spoke of....
I honestly don't understand why the 50 Shades example is always brought up. Do we watch Game of Thrones because we want to be just like those people? Do teenagers play video games and suddenly want to drive around the city stealing other cars and running over people like in Grand Theft Auto? It's not too difficult to separate fantasy and reality here, and using that as a confirmation of how they really act in life is suspect.
Agreed that the tropes of popular entertainment are no excuse to aggressively come on to women. However, that works both ways - popular entertainment is not responsible for creating a culture of male entitlement, as articles like this claim:
If it is problematic that our entertainment is full of stories about men vigorously pursuing women, then the problem lies in the women who make those stories so popular and successful.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
You're instantly saying she has no credibility at all. While multiple times saying that her experience potentially evolved from bitterness, paranoia, and attention. That would be the opposite of instantly validating her experience that I spoke of....
That was directly in response to someone saying they totally believed her version of events regarding how the evening transpired and that Ansari was a creep, while also believing it wasn't sexual assault. My point is that the accuser not only has given us no reason to trust her but arguably has given her a reason not to trust her.
Looks like Katie Way, the journalist behind the Ansari hit piece, may be able to find a career on Fox News one day. This is her e-mail to HLN and anchor Ashleigh Banfield, who criticized her story, in response to a request for an on-air interview.
Quote:
It's an unequivocal no from me. The way your colleague Ashleigh (?), someone I'm certain no one under the age of 45 has ever heard of, by the way, ripped into my source directly was one of the lowest, most despicable things I've ever seen in my entire life. Shame on her. Shame on HLN. Ashleigh could have "talked" to me. She could have "talked" to my editor or my publication. But instead, she targeted a 23-year-old woman in one of the most vulnerable moments of her life, someone she's never f------ met before, for a little attention. I hope the ratings were worth it! I hope the ~500 RTs on the single news write-up made that burgundy lipstick bad highlights second-wave feminist has-been feel really relevant for a little while. She DISGUSTS me, and I hope when she has more distance from the moment she has enough of a conscience left to feel remotely ashamed — doubt it, but still. Must be nice to piggyback off of the fact that another woman was brave enough to speak up and add another dimension to the societal conversation about sexual assault. Grace wouldn't know how that feels, because she struck out into this alone, because she's the bravest person I've ever met. I would NEVER go on your network. I would never even watch your network. No woman my age would ever watch your network. I will remember this for the rest of my career — I'm 22 and so far, not too shabby! And I will laugh the day you fold. If you could let Ashleigh know I said this, and that she is no-holds-barred the reason, it'd be a real treat for me.
Thanks,
Katie
This is Ms. Banfield's response to the e-mail.
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Katie Way's open letter sounds more like an open temper tantrum of garbage. She clearly didn't listen to what Banfield said and what a lot of people are saying about the story.
She basically wrote a revenge porn piece and used it to ambush and destroy another person, and instead of getting a medal, she's getting meatballs thrown at her.
Banfield's open letter was logical, and passionate and personal.
Katie Ways was high school spaz.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Banfield ripped into Way, calling into question both her intentions and her intelligence.
“The reason I want to share that is because if you truly believe in the #MeToo movement, if you truly believe in women’s rights, if you truly believe in feminism, the last thing you should do is attack someone in an ad hominem way for her age, I’m 50, and for my highlights,” she said.
“I was brown-haired for a while when I was a war corespondent, interviewing Yasser Arafat, and in Afghanistan and Iraq, Gaza and the West Bank. Google those places.”
Quote:
“We do not attack people for their age, or their highlights or their lipstick because it is the most hypocritical thing a woman who says she supports the women’s movement could ever do and that’s the caliber of the woman who was given all of this power and was able to wield this power.”
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Looks like Katie Way, the journalist behind the Ansari hit piece, may be able to find a career on Fox News one day. This is her e-mail to HLN and anchor Ashleigh Banfield, who criticized her story, in response to a request for an on-air interview.
Whenever I think the standards of online journalism couldn't possibly get lower, I get another reminder that's it's barely even a profession anymore. What an embarrassment. I hope Way enjoys her job at Babe, because no legitimate news outlet will hire her now. Not even Fox.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Looks like Katie Way, the journalist behind the Ansari hit piece, may be able to find a career on Fox News one day. This is her e-mail to HLN and anchor Ashleigh Banfield, who criticized her story, in response to a request for an on-air interview.
Looks like Katie Way, the journalist behind the Ansari hit piece, may be able to find a career on Fox News one day. This is her e-mail to HLN and anchor Ashleigh Banfield, who criticized her story, in response to a request for an on-air interview.
This is one of those things that you should send to colleagues before sending out, and ask whether this is actually a good idea.
Although, who knows, given the state of pseudo-journalistic outlets and who she probably has as colleagues, maybe she did and they told her to give'r.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Whenever I think the standards of online journalism couldn't possibly get lower, I get another reminder that's it's barely even a profession anymore. What an embarrassment. I hope Way enjoys her job at Babe, because no legitimate news outlet will hire her now. Not even Fox.
I hope not but I'm just waiting for a far-right media outlet to make Katie Way a hero for triggering "fake news" media outlet CNN. This will give her the requisite credibility to land a job at Fox.
I think the complaintent is being vilified too much by Bansfield when clearly Katie Way is trying to use this scoop to advance her career. If you just read the quotes from "Grace" in the article I think you have a pretty reasonable portrayal of what happened and her confusion on whether this was assault.
Take the naritive out of the piece created by Wray and I don't think she is the one to blame for all this.
I'll take you word for it Erick Estrada if you know more than me about Fifty Shades
But I was under the impression Fifty Shades of Grey was about BDSM, not rape. Quite the difference and shouldn't at all be confused with another. If you consent to being tied up and spanked, all the power to you.
From what I've been told, 50 Shades romanticizes an abusive, quite rapey and just emotionally effed up and confused relationship, and constantly blends rape with BDSM. Possibly because the writer doesn't really understand or even know that much about BDSM, or maybe she's just really into abuse fantasies. In any case, there's a lot of non-consenting and consent breaking in that book. (My guess is that the abusiveness of the relationship is actually a large part of the popular attraction, much more so than the whips and cuffs.)
Of course 50 Shades is very far from the only popular fiction written by women for women which romantices rape and abusive sex. Some quite popular books are much more blatant about it, especially in the adult fantasy section.
I think most men would be surprised how messed up stuff you can find in rather mainstream and popular books.
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From what I've been told, 50 Shades romanticizes an abusive, quite rapey and just emotionally effed up and confused relationship, and constantly blends rape with BDSM. Possibly because the writer doesn't really understand or even know that much about BDSM, or maybe she's just really into abuse fantasies. In any case, there's a lot of non-consenting and consent breaking in that book. (My guess is that the abusiveness of the relationship is actually a large part of the popular attraction, much more so than the whips and cuffs.)
Of course 50 Shades is very far from the only popular fiction written by women for women which romantices rape and abusive sex. Some quite popular books are much more blatant about it, especially in the adult fantasy section.
I think most men would be surprised how messed up stuff you can find in rather mainstream and popular books.
Having not read the book or seen the movie, this is what I've been told and read as well. Just a complete understanding of BDSM (a healthy consensual fetish) with an abusive relationship.
Woman who wrote the article had a really classy response to the Ashleigh Banfield's open letter on HLN (posted a few pages back). After being asked if she'd like to be on the show to respond:
Quote:
“It’s an unequivocal no from me. The way your colleague Ashleigh (?), someone I’m certain no one under the age of 45 has ever heard of, by the way, ripped into my source directly was one of the lowest, most despicable things I’ve ever seen in my entire life. Shame on her. Shame on HLN. Ashleigh could have ‘talked’ to me. She could have ‘talked’ to my editor or my publication. But instead, she targeted a 23-year-old woman in one of the most vulnerable moments of her life, someone she’s never ######ing met before, for a little attention. I hope the ratings were worth it! I hope the ~500 RTs on the single news write-up made that burgundy lipstick bad highlights second-wave feminist has-been feel really relevant for a little while. She DISGUSTS me, and I hope when she has more distance from the moment she has enough of a conscience left to feel remotely ashamed — doubt it, but still. Must be nice to piggyback off of the fact that another woman was brave enough to speak up and add another dimension to the societal conversation about sexual assault. Grace wouldn’t know how that feels, because she struck out into this alone, because she’s the bravest person I’ve ever met. I would NEVER go on your network. I would never even watch your network. No woman my age would ever watch your network. I will remember this for the rest of my career — I’m 22 and so far, not too shabby! And I will laugh the day you fold. If you could let Ashleigh know I said this, and that she is no-holds-barred the reason, it’d be a real treat for me.
Thanks,
Katie”
Woman who wrote the article had a really classy response to the Ashleigh Banfield's open letter on HLN (posted a few pages back). After being asked if she'd like to be on the show to respond:
Look twelve posts up from yours.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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...I suspect some of the backlash to the story is explained by a sense that going nuclear on the clueless or selfish would torch most anyone on their worst night––and that while very common problems are vital to discuss, doing so in a way that focuses anger on a few not especially egregious offenders by singling them out for public humiliation is an ugly distraction, not a necessity of progress. What’s more, if the norm against graphically sharing details of sexual encounters is significantly weakened, the cruel, self-centered, and clueless seem more likely to be among those breaching future confidences than having them breached...
Quote:
...And if most of our collective discussions of sexual misconduct are rooted in examples involving Hollywood celebrities, we’re going to be using a very unrepresentative set of interactions with some hugely distorting variables to shape norms that will apply overwhelmingly to relationships between the nonfamous. On the other hand, if men and women who aren’t public figures start publishing call-outs that go into graphic detail about the transgressions of former hookups, it is difficult to imagine the arc of that world bending toward justice...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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From what I've been told, 50 Shades romanticizes an abusive, quite rapey and just emotionally effed up and confused relationship, and constantly blends rape with BDSM. Possibly because the writer doesn't really understand or even know that much about BDSM, or maybe she's just really into abuse fantasies. In any case, there's a lot of non-consenting and consent breaking in that book. (My guess is that the abusiveness of the relationship is actually a large part of the popular attraction, much more so than the whips and cuffs.)
Of course 50 Shades is very far from the only popular fiction written by women for women which romantices rape and abusive sex. Some quite popular books are much more blatant about it, especially in the adult fantasy section.
I think most men would be surprised how messed up stuff you can find in rather mainstream and popular books.
Margaret Atwood wrote a famous short story called Rape Fantasies.
Good, long article about #MeToo, what it's becoming, and the Ansari thing which finally put into words how I was feeling about it but unable to articulate.
What actually happened was this: A man was rude and sexually entitled, ####ed up and hurt somebody, and she told him so. He apologized and took it to heart. An unscrupulous trash publication chased this woman down and got her to tell her story, which it reported in the lurid language of celebrity sex scandal. It then shoehorned the story into a movement that demands sexual and gender justice for women, and framed it in a way designed to garner maximum attention, derail important activist work, and humiliate everybody involved. The original piece at Babe magazine is an object lesson in how scummy gutter journalism can be when literally all it cares about is keeping readers salivating. The piece pruriently portrays both parties in the worst possible light: Ansari comes out of it looking like an entitled dick on training-wheels, and “Grace” comes out of it looking like a spiteful child who wanted to hurt a man who hurt her, who wanted to ruin him just like the papers warned us all women do.
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