Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I can...

It's our money, I think King is angling to make some backroom deal that will be foisted on the citizenry as a fait accompli.



What difference does that make? It's still them asking the city to subsidize their customers transportation costs and subsidizing their security costs. Why should they get breaks on either of those?

Do you demand to be inside the room for all other city negotiations? Deals would never get done. There is a point at which stuff can be made public, but not during early negotiations.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I can...

It's our money, I think King is angling to make some backroom deal that will be foisted on the citizenry as a fait accompli.

Both sides will still have their best interests at heart, so unless you don't trust the city to negotiate a fair deal, the only difference is the negotiation isn't played out in the court of public opinion. So you'd only get to bitch about it after the deal is done.

[Major Major]

Doing it in private is a great idea, but there seems to be this great forgetting from king's side that the flames are the ones who launched the public campaign. It backfired tremendously.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Doing it in private is a great idea, but there seems to be this great forgetting from king's side that the flames are the ones who launched the public campaign. It backfired tremendously.

This. It was the Flames who went to the media to make it a political issue. Too funny that King is now saying they want to negotiate privately. Maybe the Flames got some polling figures showing how badly their hearts and minds campaign backfired.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Do you demand to be inside the room for all other city negotiations? Deals would never get done. There is a point at which stuff can be made public, but not during early negotiations.

King wants no media until the deal is done... I 100% think that citizens should be engaged and consulted prior to any agreement. I think shutting citizens out is 100% a deal breaker here or at least it should be.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Parallex

King wants no media until the deal is done... I 100% think that citizens should be engaged and consulted prior to any agreement. I think shutting citizens out is 100% a deal breaker here or at least it should be.

Is that what he wants?

Or does he want no media until the city negotiators and the Flames have hammered out an agreement that is acceptable to both sides and ready for public engagement before a council vote finalizes it?

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Doing it in private is a great idea, but there seems to be this great forgetting from king's side that the flames are the ones who launched the public campaign. It backfired tremendously.

Like a guy fixing cars out of his garage, the Flames thought they could get away with only telling half the story, but the city called them out on it. Now they’re complaining that negotiations weren’t kept private. How do you reason with people like that?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This. It was the Flames who went to the media to make it a political issue. Too funny that King is now saying they want to negotiate privately. Maybe the Flames got some polling figures showing how badly their hearts and minds campaign backfired.

we elect our Councillors to act in the best interests of their citizens.

i have no issues with the negotiations starting in private, as ultimately, the deal (if their is one) will be taken to the public before anything is actually signed...and everyone should be on the same side finally

IMO there's not going to be some back room deal a la some banana republic; there's way too much scrutiny on the issue for its to be in a black box until after the ink is dry on a deal... whatever the deal is, the public will have its chance to comment and speak out on it before anything gets signed

[Reneeee]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

we elect our Councillors to act in the best interests of their citizens.

i have no issues with the negotiations starting in private, as ultimately, the deal (if their is one) will be taken to the public before anything is actually signed...and everyone should be on the same side finally

IMO there's not going to be some back room deal a la some banana republic; there's way too much scrutiny on the issue for its to be in a black box until after the ink is dry on a deal... whatever the deal is, the public will have its chance to comment and speak out on it before anything gets signed

Much like the Olympic bid, keep things private until the point where the public engagement is warranted. No need for public engagement when Harry and Sally have a disagreement about who's buying lunch this week. It's childish and makes both sides look petty as much as both KK and NN think they're right. It's funny that they both have Alliteration names. Maybe it's a character trait.

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[getbak]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

It's childish and makes both sides look petty as much as both KK and NN think they're right. It's funny that they both have Alliteration names. Maybe it's a character trait.

That reminds me of the anagram I accidentally discovered on election night last fall...

Originally Posted by getbak

Naheed Kurban Nenshi ... Anagram of: Shun Ken Behind Arena (http://www.wordplays.com/anagrammer)

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Doing it in private is a great idea, but there seems to be this great forgetting from king's side that the flames are the ones who launched the public campaign. It backfired tremendously.

Just want to quote this one more time.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Doing it in private is a great idea, but there seems to be this great forgetting from king's side that the flames are the ones who launched the public campaign. It backfired tremendously.

Yeah. The irony is pretty thick here.

At this point though, there's no reason for either side to negotiate publically. So this is just lip service.

[Fuzz]

The Flames still get to say things like threaten moving, and have Bettman come around every once and awhile to donkey it up though, right? Fair is fair!

[Ducay]

Just a reminder that while I love to dump on KK as much as everyone (surprised he's still employed), Flames only took the arena discussions public because Nenshi used the new arena in a campaign video about the Victoria Park plan, implying the arena was going there or agreed to.

Now....after they went public, completely agree they totally botched the PR and public relations and shot themselves in the foot roughly 100 times and managed to make the entire city hate them.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Just a reminder that while I love to dump on KK as much as everyone (surprised he's still employed), Flames only took the arena discussions public because Nenshi used the new arena in a campaign video about the Victoria Park plan, implying the arena was going there or agreed to.

Now....after they went public, completely agree they totally botched the PR and public relations and shot themselves in the foot roughly 100 times and managed to make the entire city hate them.

I believe posters are referring to the Flames going public with the CalgaryNEXT proposal first.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Just a reminder that while I love to dump on KK as much as everyone (surprised he's still employed), Flames only took the arena discussions public because Nenshi used the new arena in a campaign video about the Victoria Park plan, implying the arena was going there or agreed to.

Now....after they went public, completely agree they totally botched the PR and public relations and shot themselves in the foot roughly 100 times and managed to make the entire city hate them.

What about CNext? Flames launched that idea publicly without really engaging city stakeholders first (and whatever engagement they did do received understandably tepid response).

At every step of the process the Flames have been the first to screw up, screwed up bigger, while trying to screw the taxpayer.

I acknowledge that the city is not without its own missteps, but it seems most people's biggest complaint is that they are making too much information public...

[Ducay]

Oh, ya - I was referring to going public with the whole election debacle last year.

CNext was a whole other level of terrible. Again, amazed the entire executive at CSEC is still around after all of this. They had one job and massacred it beautifully.

[Robbob]

I got the impression that the CalgaryNext launch was due to the fact things were moving at such a slow pace behind the scenes. There were rumbling for more than a few years. In an attempt to bring the dialogue forward and spur things along, it became a complete poop show. CalgaryNext was always the hailmary and it just got nasty from there when the city review came in double of what the Flames projected. Both parties were playing the numbers game.

All of that just carried over when the discussion in Victoria park started. The discussions at that point were probably akin to a divorce negotiation that continued to sour as things went along.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

we elect our Councillors to act in the best interests of their citizens.

i have no issues with the negotiations starting in private, as ultimately, the deal (if their is one) will be taken to the public before anything is actually signed...and everyone should be on the same side finally

IMO there's not going to be some back room deal a la some banana republic; there's way too much scrutiny on the issue for its to be in a black box until after the ink is dry on a deal... whatever the deal is, the public will have its chance to comment and speak out on it before anything gets signed

Our wonderful councillors already killed a document from being public about some of their bad behaviour so I have no confidence that they will act in the best interest of the public when working on this deal.

[Royle9]

Is there anyway we can fly Trump and Trudeau in for these closed door negotiations so we can have 4 idiots @ the table fighting for power.

I'd love to see some CCTV of said meeting.

Trump hugging the US flag
King drooling all over himself in anger
Nenshi's sarcastic eye rolls he constantly throws like daggers
Pierre jr yammering about tariffs on US made hockey sticks.