Critical Amber Alert

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I personally think that if you're stupid enough to call 911 to complain about a Amber Alert You should be warned once in the politest terms, and if you do it again, you get hit with a $500.00 fine.

IIRC, we've had someone 'talk' their way into the $5000 version of the Misuse of 911 fine for this. They called 4 times, and were extremely abusive to each ECO they spoke to too, though.

[Bagor]

Out of curiosity what is the geographical spread of your amber alerts?

Calgary and region or all of Alberta?

[Resolute 14]

Depends on what the police think is prudent. It doesn't take long to get to Calgary from anywhere, so most anything from Edmonton south will collect us.

As far as the complaints go, I agree with fining people who misuse 911, and I also agree that the system needs work. Really, all they need is to silence the alarm from say 11 pm to 6 am. Still send the messages, but sleeping people aren't going to be on the lookout.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Depends on what the police think is prudent. It doesn't take long to get to Calgary from anywhere, so most anything from Edmonton south will collect us.

As far as the complaints go, I agree with fining people who misuse 911, and I also agree that the system needs work. Really, all they need is to silence the alarm from say 11 pm to 6 am. Still send the messages, but sleeping people aren't going to be on the lookout.

That's not the point. It's not a call to form some posse and start looking around your neighbourhood.

[Resolute 14]

The entire point of an Amber Alert is to make the public aware of an issue and to have them on the lookout as they go through their daily routine. The fact that nobody is going to "form some posse", is the entire reason why the alarm serves no purpose but to irritate the public when chimed overnight. Like I said, sleeping people won't be on the lookout. But they can read the message waiting for them in the morning.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The entire point of an Amber Alert is to make the public aware of an issue and to have them on the lookout as they go through their daily routine. The fact that nobody is going to "form some posse", is the entire reason why the alarm serves no purpose but to irritate the public when chimed overnight. Like I said, sleeping people won't be on the lookout. But they can read the message waiting for them in the morning.

It’s also to provide information of what happened before.

In the common parent kidnapping case the parent won’t know the child is missing until they aren’t returned. So where the child was 6 hrs before could provide relavemt clues.

The goal of this program is to find 1 or 2 tips by disturbing millions of people awake or not. Until we have actual data on where effective tips are coming from making a blanket statement that a 10 year old or an elderly person, or someone sleeping will not have that piece of info is irresponsible. What are the odds of me having any info on any Amber Alert whether away or sleeping? The answer is near zero regardless.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GGG

The goal of this program is to find 1 or 2 tips by disturbing millions of people awake or not. Until we have actual data on where effective tips are coming from making a blanket statement that a 10 year old or an elderly person, or someone sleeping will not have that piece of info is irresponsible. What are the odds of me having any info on any Amber Alert whether away or sleeping? The answer is near zero regardless.

If my phone has been on DND since before the kid went missing, it's literally 0% chance vs a possible non-zero chance otherwise. Two numbers can both be "near zero" and orders of magnitude apart. 0.01% and 0.000000000000000000001% should not be conflated with other, nor should either be conflated with exactly 0%. Stats would be nice but in the meantime we can show, at a minimum, that there are diminishing returns just by modeling the situation.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SebC

If my phone has been on DND since before the kid went missing, it's literally 0% chance vs a possible non-zero chance otherwise. Two numbers can both be "near zero" and orders of magnitude apart. 0.01% and 0.000000000000000000001% should not be conflated with other, nor should either be conflated with exactly 0%. Stats would be nice but in the meantime we can show, at a minimum, that there are diminishing returns just by modeling the situation.

I agree with you, though we could wait a year collect a bunch of a data analyse where the tips are coming and then make a decision with at least some data. You are looking for such a small piece of information

I don’t think the general public has a good understanding of where the tips come from. I certainly don’t.

It is not reasonable to argue that you have zero chance of being able to help or even that people with DND on have zero chance of being able to help.

[Table 5]

I feel like after a certain time, they should send out the alerts, just as a regular txt without the alarm. Those who are awake will get the message like a regular text, and those who are sleeping and can’t do anything about it anyway, will just get it when they wake up. Everybody still gets them, but without the annoyance factor.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GGG

I agree with you, though we could wait a year collect a bunch of a data analyse where the tips are coming and then make a decision with at least some data. You are looking for such a small piece of information

I don’t think the general public has a good understanding of where the tips come from. I certainly don’t.

It is not reasonable to argue that you have zero chance of being able to help or even that people with DND on have zero chance of being able to help.

Shouldn't there already be good data from the other locations where these alerts have been in use for years?

The first time I ever received an Amber Alert pushed to my phone was in early 2015 in New York. I'm sure that wasn't the very first alert ever sent, but even if it was, that was over 4 and a half years ago in one of the largest cities in the world.


Is there any reason to think that the basic effectiveness of the system and quality of information received in the Canada would be significantly different than it has been in the US?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I feel like after a certain time, they should send out the alerts, just as a regular txt without the alarm. Those who are awake will get the message like a regular text, and those who are sleeping and can’t do anything about it anyway, will just get it when they wake up. Everybody still gets them, but without the annoyance factor.

What does sleeping at the time the alert goes out have to do with anything?


If you were sleeping when the child actually disappeared then maybe you have a point.


But if people are grumbling about an infrequent alert, then sending the alerts out immediately when a child is so much as suspected as missing is going to mean a barrage of false alarms.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Oh good, let's have this same argument all over again.

Can't you guys just re-read the first ten pages of the thread instead?

[jayswin]

You're so grumpy lately. And I don't say that lightly, because you're an incredibly abrasive, cranky poster at the best of times. But lately you're even more so.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Sorry, was I doing your job for you? I forgot we had the self-appointed post police on this forum. Please, carry on fulfilling what seems to be your sole function here.

[ken0042]

Something I’ve been thinking about. While I’m still on team “the system can be improved”- I wonder about something that we may never be able to get stats on.

With the alerts going to phones- how many would be abductors (I’m thinking parents) reconsider their options knowing that now the whole province will be watching them. Take a person who is normally reasonable but is now at their wits end- does it now give them enough pause to reconsider?

[Northendzone]

I am sure that everyone who is advocating for no alerts from 11pm to 6am or something is not working very hard to imagine themselves in a situation where it is their child that is missing.

I am sure they would say you know what, tomorrow is Sunday, let’s not send out an alert until 9am as I don’t want to disturb anyone over something trivial like my missing child.

If you need to keep your phone at your bedside because you are on call from work, do you yell at your coworkers when you are called at an odd hour. If you need your phone beside your bed for an alarm clock, then just buy a clock as they are less than $20.

As for idiots that call 911 over a late pizza delivery- I mean how can you help those people. Personally, i’d Recommend some type of shaming at their workplace or a public square.....

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

If you need to keep your phone at your bedside because you are on call from work, do you yell at your coworkers when you are called at an odd hour.

I only use the nuclear alarm siren ringtone for Jerry, but that's just to make sure I yell at him whether he calls day or night.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Sorry, was I doing your job for you? I forgot we had the self-appointed post police on this forum. Please, carry on fulfilling what seems to be your sole function here.

Are you serious right now? You have the balls to post this, right after posting the following:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Oh good, let's have this same argument all over again.

Can't you guys just re-read the first ten pages of the thread instead?

Follow your own advice, hypocrite.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I am sure that everyone who is advocating for no alerts from 11pm to 6am or something is not working very hard to imagine themselves in a situation where it is their child that is missing.

Appeal to emotion is never a useful argument.

I am sure they would say you know what, tomorrow is Sunday, let’s not send out an alert until 9am as I don’t want to disturb anyone over something trivial like my missing child.

Still appeal to emotion. Also, nobody said not to send alerts. But not to use the emergency alarm chime during that time. People who are awake are still likely to see the message notification light on their phones and check.

Everyone else will see it when they wake up. And, notably, information such as vehicle make and licence plate will be fresher in their minds right as they leave for their commute, as opposed to completely forgotten if they were woken up at 2AM for a message they would just delete without reading.

If you need to keep your phone at your bedside because you are on call from work, do you yell at your coworkers when you are called at an odd hour. If you need your phone beside your bed for an alarm clock, then just buy a clock as they are less than $20.

On the former, yes. If the call is frivolous and/or there is nothing I can do to help at that time, absolutely I'll yell at the person needlessly waking me up.

On the latter, a complete irrelevancy.

As for idiots that call 911 over a late pizza delivery- I mean how can you help those people. Personally, i’d Recommend some type of shaming at their workplace or a public square.....

Literally nobody has brought up pizza delivery in this thread, so this is a total non sequitur.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Are you serious right now? You have the balls to post this, right after posting the following:

Follow your own advice, hypocrite.

Did... did you read the posts you quoted? I literally said that I was doing his job (post policing). So, yes, I fully recognize what I was doing in that instance and that I should stop, and he should too, because he does it all the time - that was the entire point of the post. I don't understand how you could possibly have missed that. Did you get hit in the head with something heavy this morning?