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Old 02-11-2018, 12:24 AM   #1
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Default Colten Bushie murder trial

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theg...ticle37929427/

Surprising this wasn't more of a topic of discussion on CP.

Gerald Stanley found not guilty.
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:24 AM   #2
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Having only read the story you posted, it's a tough case to comment on. The youths admit to trying to steal a truck at a neighbouring farm, yet claim they were at the accused's farm for help. Not sure I buy that. On the other hand, there is a big discrepancy between the accused and his son's testimonies, as well as the 'gun just went off' thing, which is also fishy as hell. Sounds like both sides are not being totally forthright, so how do you determine guilt? What's there to say, other than this is a really sad case?
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:48 AM   #3
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I was intending to start a thread on this as I was also surprised there was no discussion on here.

There are so many issues but one important thing to consider is that guilt must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt for the jury to return a guilty verdict. Stanley had a good defence and created reasonable doubt. The crown didnt present a case that eliminated the reasonable doubt.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:57 AM   #4
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The crown messed up badly by going for a 2nd degree murder charge. They would have had a much better shot if they tried for manslaughter or criminal negligence charges.

A couple things -

1) Colton Boushie's group had been drinking for days.
2) They had a gun in their car, which was loaded and usable. Although it had a broken stock, so it has been referred to as a partial firearm by some news outlets.
3) They tried to start up an ATV on the property.
4) The group lied throughout the process and was very unreliable: summary
5) The RCMP didn't help themselves when describing the hangfire. They provided testimony about how almost all hangfires go off within 1 second of pulling the trigger. However, the Canadian Firearms Safety course states that a firearm should be pointed downrange for a full minute in the event of a hangfire.

It is tragic that Bouchie lost his life that day. I don't think any reasonable jury was ever going to convict Stanley and I think it is rather questionable that this even went to trial. Stanley is already paying a significant price with his reputation and the money he spent defending himself. I'm not sure if I fully believe Stanley's story, but I do know that he wasn't going out that day looking for someone to kill. He was trying to protect his family and his property from a gang of criminals. Regardless, I don't think the evidence warranted a conviction and the jury made the right decision.

This trial underscores the need to self defense law reform in Canada. There shouldn't be a dog and pony show every time someone defends themselves on their own property in Canada.

It also highlights the inherent bias in the justice system when these people that put Stanley in this position were not charged with crimes for their role in this shooting. Criminal Trespass, Impaired driving and possibly criminal negligence causing death.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:57 AM   #5
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I was debating if it was proper or not for Trudeau to have tweeted about the case. To me the tweet seemed like some indirect support for the family of the victim.

As mentioned above, tough case to comment on given what has been reported.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:01 AM   #6
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I was debating if it was proper or not for Trudeau to have tweeted about the case. To me the tweet seemed like some indirect support for the family of the victim.

As mentioned above, tough case to comment on given what has been reported.
Trudeau is trying to be popular. I think his tweets are inappropriate. He can offer to meet with the Boushie family but the tweets imply that the jury reached the wrong verdict in his eyes.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:15 AM   #7
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I do worry about racial tensions that are going to increase because of the verdict. The leader of the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations publicly threatened Stanley and his family. The media is trying to downplay those threats but I think the reality is that the Stanley family is going to have to move away from the area.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:22 AM   #8
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Definitely a tragedy. Feel bad for all involved. I think the verdict was right though, Stanley didn't choose to be in that situation whereas the others did.

If I were him I would move out of the area for sure, but hopefully they will leave him alone if he doesn't.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:22 AM   #9
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I think that Trudeau and his Justice Ministers statements about this were really inappropriate.

It sounds like everyone wanted a sacrifice more then a guilty verdict.

The witnesses were bad and couldn't be relied upon to be truthful.

The prosecution did a poor job.

There was no way that there should have been anything but a not guilty plea.

The whole lets start making a segregated court system for Natives makes very little sense, but that's what everyone seems to want.

They wanted a native jury. The First Nations is calling for native judges and lawyers, and frankly I'm all for that in the context of the general justice system.

But Trudeau wanted a guilty verdict in the name of political correctness and inclusion, but the last time I checked, the Justice System isn't supposed to be some Mayanesque sacrificial alter in the name of making people feel better. I've been told that here a thousand times, that justice isn't about the victims or their families but about the law.

As a sideline, the victim and his friends had tried to steal a truck on another property, and then gone on this property and started eyeing up vehicles and then started a ATV, so frankly the victims families are kind of lying to themselves here, and portraying him as a kid mercilessly slaughtered for being native, and it feels like the press is choosing sides in this story.

Our Prime Minister shouldn't have commented on this case at all, all he's done is throw more kindling into the fire.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:23 AM   #10
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Definitely a tragedy. Feel bad for all involved. I think the verdict was right though, Stanley didn't choose to be in that situation whereas the others did.

If I were him I would move out of the area for sure, but hopefully they will leave him alone if he doesn't.
They won't, he should move, and its sad if he has to.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:34 AM   #11
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They wanted a native jury. The First Nations is calling for native judges and lawyers, and frankly I'm all for that in the context of the general justice system.
Pool of over 750 people were summoned for jury selection in the trial.

The defense can use their peremptory challenges on 12 of them.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:38 AM   #12
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The crown messed up badly by going for a 2nd degree murder charge. They would have had a much better shot if they tried for manslaughter or criminal negligence charges.
They did go for manslaughter though, the jury was eligible to find him guilty of that.

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This trial underscores the need to self defense law reform in Canada. There shouldn't be a dog and pony show every time someone defends themselves on their own property in Canada.
This had nothing to do with self-defense, nor does it illustrate anything about it. Not even the defence brought it up as self-defense.

Stanley's position, and even really the Crown's, was that he walked/ran up to the vehicle and his gun accidentally discharged due to a hangfire. He wasn't trying to protect himself, his family or his property at the time of the actual homicide so self-defense had no bearing on this case. It was all about whether or not Stanley intentionally shot the gun, or in the case of the manslaughter charge, whether his negligence around it put him at guilt.

And even if you did want to get into the self-defense issue, which many people want to. The idea that you should be able to walk up to someone on your property and shoot them in the back of their head when they pose no threat? Yeah, no thanks. This is Canada, not some post-apocalyptic wasteland.

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Old 02-11-2018, 09:41 AM   #13
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Drunk criminals all with lengthy records come on to a farmers property and attempt to steal his ATV in the middle of the night with a loaded fire arm in their vehicle. This after just trying to steal a truck on a neighbouring farm. It's really to bad that the kid died, I 100 percent agree with that but play stupid games win stupid prizes. This incident was completely avoidable.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:45 AM   #14
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Drunk criminals all with lengthy records come on to a farmers property and attempt to steal his ATV in the middle of the night with a loaded fire arm in their vehicle. This after just trying to steal a truck on a neighbouring farm. It's really to bad that the kid died, I 100 percent agree with that but play stupid games win stupid prizes. This incident was completely avoidable.
This is really how I see it, and, I am so disgusted how the media made this a race issue. "He died because of settler culture and white privilege" is actually some bull#### I read. Yes, settler culture. Add that to your lexicon of things white people should feel bad about.

I'm also really just about fed up with Trudeau. Between this and "peoplekind" and his own parties corruption (Sheppell) I can't see how I can vote for this guy again.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:49 AM   #15
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle32451940/

With the race issues, you get into stuff like this:

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"We share the land. To say they killed him for trespassing means they violated the Treaty. Nobody owns the land," she said.
Like how do you deal with this? When it's the position of some of Colton's supporters that he had a right to the land that his friends were illegally trespassing on to steal vehicles, allegedly.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:49 AM   #16
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The amount of outrage on Twitter over this is surprising. I think manslaughter would have been an appropriate verdict also, as its not really clear why the gun became pointed at the kid's head, but in the end the circumstances of the case led the jury to not want to even do that. The thieves had a gun with them which they broke trying to steal a truck on another farm, and it had 5 bullets, one in the chamber.

Stanley grabbing his gun was prudent.

The thieves' testimony was so completely unreliable I imagine the jury discarded most of it. They were all so drunk they couldn't remember what happened and between them each had a different set of facts including the gender of the person holding the gun. They each drank more than a 26 oz of spirits that day!

Its very sad this kid died. Those with him should have been charged also (attempted theft, impaired driving, etc) but its seems the RCMP took it easy on them.

There are plenty of natives posting on twitter there could be no trespass because it was native land, that just makes them look silly.

Trudeau is a milquetoast on this trial with his tweet.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:51 AM   #17
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Did it happen in the middle of the night? Kind of weird the farmer and son would be building a fence at that time.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:55 AM   #18
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No. It was shortly after 5 p.m.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:58 AM   #19
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Drunk criminals all with lengthy records come on to a farmers property and attempt to steal his ATV in the middle of the night with a loaded fire arm in their vehicle. This after just trying to steal a truck on a neighbouring farm. It's really to bad that the kid died, I 100 percent agree with that but play stupid games win stupid prizes. This incident was completely avoidable.
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Did it happen in the middle of the night? Kind of weird the farmer and son would be building a fence at that time.
The events were described as happening shortly after 5pm. This was August so there would have been much daylight.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:58 AM   #20
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I think both sides lied and the jury used reasonable doubt to find not guilty.

He probably did shoot him on purpose in the heat of the moment. Those kids were essentially on a drunken rampage and the farmer probably felt scared. When you drive on a rural property in a car missing a front wheel and try to steal a vehicle you risk getting shot. They were also armed and who knows whether they pointed the weapon at the farmer or his kid.

I can understand why people think this outcome is racially motivated, but reasonable doubt that the gun accidentally went off played a bigger role.
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