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Old 05-26-2018, 06:04 PM   #12941
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I'd be very wary of trading any prospects given the lack of draft picks.

I would not object to trading Brodie or Stone for the right picks. Bennett either but he won't return enough to make it worthwhile.

If I'm trading Hamilton it has to be for a top pick, and if not first overall, I'm looking for more.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:06 PM   #12942
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Flames aren't making trades that make them worse next season...Core roster players for picks isn't happening, nor should it.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:27 PM   #12943
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Trading players for picks doesn’t need to make you worse.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:52 PM   #12944
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
Flames aren't making trades that make them worse next season...Core roster players for picks isn't happening, nor should it.
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Trading players for picks doesn’t need to make you worse.
He said "Core" roster players. The only kind of roster players that will return you picks of any significance.

Trading those for picks will make your roster worse in the short term.
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:10 AM   #12945
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It's probably nothing but it struck me that during Peters' introductory press conference he listed positives about the d corps except for Stone really. For example when talking about Brodie he talked about being good in years past, on the right side etc but when it came to Stone it was like he came in and did the job.

Like I said, probably nothing.
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:55 AM   #12946
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It's probably nothing but it struck me that during Peters' introductory press conference he listed positives about the d corps except for Stone really. For example when talking about Brodie he talked about being good in years past, on the right side etc but when it came to Stone it was like he came in and did the job.

Like I said, probably nothing.
He actually didn't say much about Bennett either, if i recall correctly.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:04 AM   #12947
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He actually didn't say much about Bennett either, if i recall correctly.
He said "we need to find out what he is"
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:40 AM   #12948
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I agree with those that say Brodie will return a lot more than $.60 on the dollar. He has held a top four role for three plus years at the NHL level. He has slid but that won't change the fact the NHL is defender hungry on the trade market and always will be. You pay up to get a guy that can play 25 minutes, and lots of coaches will look at film and tell their GMs they can fix him.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:57 AM   #12949
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
He said "Core" roster players. The only kind of roster players that will return you picks of any significance.

Trading those for picks will make your roster worse in the short term.
Well I guess everyone has their own ideas of core players. Flames got worse last year despite acquiring two core players (Hamonic and Smith) for only picks.

I’d like to think we are not just creating a fantasy roster but actually a long term competitive team.

Trading Brodie or Stone for the right picks wouldn’t bother me at all.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:59 AM   #12950
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Well I guess everyone has their own ideas of core players. Flames got worse last year despite acquiring two core players (Hamonic and Smith) for only picks.

I’d like to think we are not just creating a fantasy roster but actually a long term competitive team.

Trading Brodie or Stone for the right picks wouldn’t bother me at all.
There is a difference between 'got worse' and 'had a bad year'.

I think the Flames roster got better last year, but they had a bad year on the ice.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:00 AM   #12951
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I agree with those that say Brodie will return a lot more than $.60 on the dollar. He has held a top four role for three plus years at the NHL level. He has slid but that won't change the fact the NHL is defender hungry on the trade market and always will be. You pay up to get a guy that can play 25 minutes, and lots of coaches will look at film and tell their GMs they can fix him.
If he doesn’t get dealt, maybe it means Peters is one of those.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:05 AM   #12952
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Realistically, Treliving doesn’t care about a long term winning team. He needs to win with the top players he has now, if he can’t then he will be working somewhere else. A draft pick doesn’t help Gio, Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Monahan win the cup, and that’s the play.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:19 AM   #12953
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
There is a difference between 'got worse' and 'had a bad year'.

I think the Flames roster got better last year, but they had a bad year on the ice.
This is me too.

GMs ... and I think Treliving is one of them that thinks this way ... have to realise that results and roster health aren't directly correlated.

You have to recognize the existence and timing of a team that is sliding and will get worse vs a team that seems to have the right pieces but is missing depth, support, or an element that can be rectified with a tinker, a coaching change, a bottom roster move or two or some graduates from the farm system.

I personally don't think if you played that season again 10 times they'd miss the playoff again, but that's me ... the optimist.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:22 AM   #12954
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Trading Brodie does not necessarily open up a spot for Andersson because LH-RH. That’s the issue I was referring to. I believe Bingo did reference that in the initial post. I could be wrong.

I guess I don’t think we should trade Brodie either. It’s not like he’s performed like a great top 4 defenceman, but the Flames don’t have anyone to replace him. For all we know, if Kulak, let alone Valimaki or Kylington we’re trusted with the L2D position, they might totally drowned and sewer the 2nd pair. That could really hurt next season. So it’s too much of a risk.

The other reason I don’t want to trade Brodie is while Brodie still plays top 4 minutes, scores points and shows skating ability, I think he is at a low point relative to other top 4 defencemen’s trade value or his 15-16 value. $0.40 lower was an exaggeration.

The thing about trading him right now is it’s a double risk. You are risking another defencemen who has not played in the top 4 can play in the top 4 and that Brodie will not improve his value through improved play.

All that said, if Brodie could get you a 1st and 2 2nds, would I risk the 2nd pair to maintain the prospect pool? Probably yes. I think there’s a threshold return you look for before you trade Brodie because it’s a trade off between the present and the future.

The big thing is that, outside of Stone, the Flames should not be committed to trading anyone. As soon as you commit, you could get end up with a horrible return.

Trade Stone, sign bargain bin non-July 1 FAs, trade them at the deadline if not in the playoffs or make the playoffs. This is the likely offseason I want. I don’t want the Flames to trade valuable futures for veterans. Now, if Brodie can actually get you a good top 6 C/RW than you do that every time. I hope I’m wrong about Brodie’s trade value.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:29 AM   #12955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson View Post
Trading Brodie does not necessarily open up a spot for Andersson because LH-RH. That’s the issue I was referring to. I believe Bingo did reference that in the initial post. I could be wrong.

I guess I don’t think we should trade Brodie either. It’s not like he’s performed like a great top 4 defenceman, but the Flames don’t have anyone to replace him. For all we know, if Kulak, let alone Valimaki or Kylington we’re trusted with the L2D position, they might totally drowned and sewer the 2nd pair. That could really hurt next season. So it’s too much of a risk.

The other reason I don’t want to trade Brodie is while Brodie still plays top 4 minutes, scores points and shows skating ability, I think he is at a low point relative to other top 4 defencemen’s trade value or his 15-16 value. $0.40 lower was an exaggeration.

The thing about trading him right now is it’s a double risk. You are risking another defencemen who has not played in the top 4 can play in the top 4 and that Brodie will not improve his value through improved play.

All that said, if Brodie could get you a 1st and 2 2nds, would I risk the 2nd pair to maintain the prospect pool? Probably yes. I think there’s a threshold return you look for before you trade Brodie because it’s a trade off between the present and the future.

The big thing is that, outside of Stone, the Flames should not be committed to trading anyone. As soon as you commit, you could get end up with a horrible return.

Trade Stone, sign bargain bin non-July 1 FAs, trade them at the deadline if not in the playoffs or make the playoffs. This is the likely offseason I want. I don’t want the Flames to trade valuable futures for veterans. Now, if Brodie can actually get you a good top 6 C/RW than you do that every time. I hope I’m wrong about Brodie’s trade value.
And I agree with you for sure.

You only trade Brodie if you have a very very good feel for what you have in young players (Valimaki, Kulak and Kylington), or you have to get your expectations on the return blown away to the degree where you can turn Brodie into a great top six forward (fixing a bigger hole than you're creating), and then maybe sign a left shooting, relatively inexpensive defenseman to promote if things go pie shaped.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:03 AM   #12956
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As mentioned, I don’t think Brodie gets traded until Kulak or a prospect like Kylington or Valimaki make Brodie expendable.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:21 AM   #12957
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Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers View Post
Realistically, Treliving doesn’t care about a long term winning team. He needs to win with the top players he has now, if he can’t then he will be working somewhere else. A draft pick doesn’t help Gio, Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Monahan win the cup, and that’s the play.
I think many fans feel the same way.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:27 AM   #12958
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This is me too.

GMs ... and I think Treliving is one of them that thinks this way ... have to realise that results and roster health aren't directly correlated.

You have to recognize the existence and timing of a team that is sliding and will get worse vs a team that seems to have the right pieces but is missing depth, support, or an element that can be rectified with a tinker, a coaching change, a bottom roster move or two or some graduates from the farm system.

I personally don't think if you played that season again 10 times they'd miss the playoff again, but that's me ... the optimist.
If these don't eventually correlate, then those GM's are fooling themselves as to their roster.

It's a totally valid opinion to believe the Flames roster has been underperforming and the magic elixir is easily obtainable.

I say don't be afraid to trade parts of the roster for draft picks. You might come to find out the solution to your problems is in your system, even if it doesn't happen overnight.

Last edited by Strange Brew; 05-27-2018 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:40 AM   #12959
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As mentioned, I don’t think Brodie gets traded until Kulak or a prospect like Kylington or Valimaki make Brodie expendable.
Brodie is expendable. Brodie made Brodie expendable last season.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:55 AM   #12960
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What would people think of targeting Hagelin in a small trade? He would inject some much needed speed into the team and can play up & down the lineup. One issue with him has been staying healthy. He's in the final year of a 4mAAV contract so I think he'd be quite cheap to get in terms of a trade.

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