2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

1. The Dougie/Gio pairing was widely considered to be one of the best pairings in the league and their advanced stats back this up before you even account for the fact that he seemed to be under utilized in both even strength and PP minutes by the coaching staff last year.

2. Is Dougie a winner? Either he is the most naturally talented defenseman in the league, managing to put up good possession metrics while being the top scorer at his position despite apparently not caring or trying hard, or people are falsely attributing his laid back attitude off the ice and percieved lack of intensity and physicality on the ice with him not caring about winning... which seems more likely?

3. Every person with a heart and a pulse wouldn't be happy if their brother was traded off their team. You're saying your opinion of him would be better if he lied to everyone and told them he didn't care? Keep in mind he played just as good or better after Freddie was traded away. He didn't sulk.

1. The very same stats also showed Gio-Brodie as the best defensive pair in the league as well for multiple seasons. Gio is the constant and if Dougie were a better Dman would be not be in the top 3 in minutes for a Dman on the team? Would he kill more penalties?

2. Lots of floating and bad penalties is why I question his desire to win. Again subjective and could be wrong. You could be right about the laid back attitude giving off the impression he doesn’t care which may not be the case.

3. He could have said “I am glad Freddie gets a chance to keep playing in the NHL” then quickly saying “I am only here to talk about the game” he made it a story saying that when he could have quickly squashed it by wishing his brother the best and being happy he is in the nhl instead of back in the A where he was heading.


One thing about Dougie in his 3 years in Calgary is he heats up in the second half. I think that is the reason he played better when Freddie left.

I know it comes across that I am a hater but I am really not. If the Flames don’t move him this summer then he is likely not a player that contributed to the lack of emotion that Treliving referenced. He is a good player and in my opinion the only Dman thst can return a long term young core forward.

If they keep the top 4 intact lets swap Dougie and Hamonic. I tend to believe Gio-Hamonic would have better advanced stats and tougher matchups than Brodie-Hamilton

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

i don't want to move Gio, who had a great year last year... that said, he is an interesting chip for a team like Toronto...

From the area, brings tons of leadership, character guy, plays a defensive game...

on the plus for the Flames, you get a big return as Gio is still looking really good, compared to say the Iggy situation, where Calgary waited 2 years too long.

i mean great players, but at some point you have to restock and a guy like gio could bring back significant pieces...

but the question is whether the team thinks Hamilton/Hamonic/Brodie are able to fill that void Gio would leave behind.

I don’t think anyone on the blueline can fill Gio’s role but if the Flames could get Marner or Nylander for Gio I would do it. When has a 35 year old been traded for a 21-22 year old former top 10 pick with multiple 60pt seasons?

[GioforPM]

While they were good, Brodie and Gio were never statistically the best pair in the league. Gio and Hamilton were.

For a guy that doesn't care about winning, he scored a fair number of GWG. Tied with Gio and Johnny for second on the team. Virtually the same penalty minutes than Gio and less than Hamonic, Backlund, and Hathaway.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

1. The very same stats also showed Gio-Brodie as the best defensive pair in the league as well for multiple seasons. Gio is the constant and if Dougie were a better Dman would be not be in the top 3 in minutes for a Dman on the team? Would he kill more penalties?

2. Lots of floating and bad penalties is why I question his desire to win. Again subjective and could be wrong.


One thing about Dougie in his 3 years in Calgary is he heats up in the second half. I think that is the reason he played better when Freddie left.

If they keep the top 4 intact lets swap Dougie and Hamonic. I tend to believe Gio-Hamonic would have better advanced stats and tougher matchups than Brodie-Hamilton

No doubt that the Gio affect has boosted both Brodies and Hamilton's stats when they are paired with him, but Brodie never put up the numbers that Hamilton does when he was given the same opportunity in the past.

Penalties are definitely a knock on Hamilton, can't argue that. But saying he's visually a floater on the ice seems to contradict his possession stats, again I think that this might be a perception that people attribute to his lack of physicality.

As for his minutes and usage, that's something that never got addressed by the coaching staff and was extremely frustrating for a lot of people. I can't remember how many times I listened to the fan asking why the seemingly most talented defenseman on the team is getting umderplayed. Maybe he can kill penalties, maybe not. Maybe he can handle 25 or more minutes every night, maybe he can't. The most frustrating thing to me is that the coaches watched the defense and the PP struggle horribly this season, watched the team struggle and ultimately fail and yet we still don't have any answers for these questions because they refused to make adjustments or change things up.

Watching a coaching staff repeatedly try to shove square pegs into round holes over and over again and stubbornly refusing to try putting different pegs in different holes despite a clear lack of success is the real failure here IMO. We sucked away a whole season and we still don't know any more about this team then we did when we started.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

While they were good, Brodie and Gio were never statistically the best pair in the league. Gio and Hamilton were.

.

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/m...eir-teams/amp/

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

No doubt that the Gio affect has boosted both Brodies and Hamilton's stats when they are paired with him, but Brodie never put up the numbers that Hamilton does when he was given the same opportunity in the past.

Penalties are definitely a knock on Hamilton, can't argue that. But saying he's visually a floater on the ice seems to contradict his possession stats, again I think that this might be a perception that people attribute to his lack of physicality.

As for his minutes and usage, that's something that never got addressed by the coaching staff and was extremely frustrating for a lot of people. I can't remember how many times I listened to the fan asking why the seemingly most talented defenseman on the team is getting umderplayed. Maybe he can kill penalties, maybe not. Maybe he can handle 25 or more minutes every night, maybe he can't. The most frustrating thing to me is that the coaches watched the defense and the PP struggle horribly this season, watched the team struggle and ultimately fail and yet we still don't have any answers for these questions because they refused to make adjustments or change things up.

Watching a coaching staff repeatedly try to shove square pegs into round holes over and over again and stubbornly refusing to try putting different pegs in different holes despite a clear lack of success is the real failure here IMO. We sucked away a whole season and we still don't know any more about this team then we did when we started.

Hamilton is definitely better than Brodie no doubt. Hartley has Dougie on the third pair at times as well so also saw issues with the defensive play. The fact Dougie was not on the first unit PP for 2/3 of the season this year was absurd. I do t disagree with your take on the coaching at all.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Hamilton is definitely better than Brodie no doubt. Hartley has Dougie on the third pair at times as well so also saw issues with the defensive play. The fact Dougie was not on the first unit PP for 2/3 of the season this year was absurd. I do t disagree with your take on the coaching at all.

For whatever defensive of 'give an F' metrics you look at, at least Peters seems to appreciate Dougie's offensive ability. I would be highly surprised if he isn't a PP staple this year. Mind bottling/boggling all year.

[MrMike]

What would we think about Maroon as a free agency pick up? Just an honest question I didn't pay enough attention to the guy at all.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by MrMike

What would we think about Maroon as a free agency pick up? Just an honest question I didn't pay enough attention to the guy at all.

Old? Check.
Slow? Check.
Product of an MVP? Check.

Yep... do not want. Might as well go get Conor Sheary too

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MrMike

What would we think about Maroon as a free agency pick up? Just an honest question I didn't pay enough attention to the guy at all.

I am not a big fan. Outside of his 27-goal-year playing on McDavid's wing he has not done much. He is already 30-years-old. I think the Flames can do better.

[MrMike]

Gotcha thanks guys.

So is it Evander Kane or bust for a legit RW not through trade?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

No doubt that the Gio affect has boosted both Brodies and Hamilton's stats when they are paired with him, but Brodie never put up the numbers that Hamilton does when he was given the same opportunity in the past.

So Brodie’s best year he had 45 pts in 70, or a 53 point pace.
Hamilton’s best year is 50 points in 81 games.

There was a link to the article about the Brodie-Gio pairing being a top pairing

Why do people make these definitive statements? You do remember that Gio and Brodie were really good under Bob, no?

.

[GranteedEV]

I think Hamilton is a very useful player and a player you want on your team. I do question if he's suited to top pairing duties as his solution to getting beat tends to be to grab on and hope there's no penalty. I don't see why you couldn't get more out of Hamilton in a second pairing role. His biggest strengths come on the cycle in the offensive zone - it's more about having him out there with the top forwards than about having him out there with Giordano.

I think Brodie's a better transition and defensive player than Hamilton - and in fact the Giordano-Brodie pairing had better numbers strictly defensively despite playing tougher minutes than the Giordano-Hamilton pairing. I think that pairing allowed Giordano to be a better player and it allowed Brodie to a better player (partially because Brodie should play the right and partially because, as Treliving put it:

"TJ's a helluva player. Two years ago we saw what they did together. We see what (Giordano) and Dougie are doing together now.

"TJ and Dougie are top players, don't get me wrong, but the common denominator here is 5. He impacts the game not only with his play but to be able to have your game pull others along to that level is a rare thing. You're forced to play at a certain standard to match him or get left behind.

Anyways. The issue comes down to this: Can Hamilton carry a pairing on his own? He has
historically failed pretty miserably on pairs with Russell, Jokipakka, and in smaller sample sizes hasn't had much success with Kulak either. He's spent almost his entire career partnered with Chara or Giordano.

Perhaps the Flames don't want to split up Gio-Dougie because they don't believe Hamilton can anchor a pair, but do believe Brodie can (Brodie has had success partnered with Russell, Stone, and Engelland. In fact Two of those three pairings were the pairings Brodie played in either playoff series with where he was one of our best players, and the Russell-Brodie pairing actually posted better goal differentials than the Giordano-Brodie pairing).

But one option that tends to be uncharted waters is the Brodie-Hamilton pairing. I think Brodie is a player who thrives on the right side, so it isn't my preference, but there are some merits to this pairing:

1) Have Giordano-Hamonic be a pair, which they already are on the penalty kill. Have them take the tough matchups. Giordano is a strong goal scorer, which I think is a better fit for a partner like Hamonic who can't score from the point, and also opens up Gio to be more offensively inclined. I think having Hamonic be a puck rusher on his pair plays more to his skillset than having him play with a puck rusher and constantly second-guessing himself.

2) The Brodie-Hamilton pair has actually been pretty successful in limited sample size. They have strong metrics:

Brodie-Hamilton - 162.45 minutes / 52.45% CF / 61.79 % GF

Maybe that GF% would trend downwards, but these are very good numbers. While having one strong CF% pairing is nice for writing an article, having a truly strong top four is probably more vital to winning games. If this is the pair out there when Giordano is not, I believe depth scoring would be more balanced.

3) It makes sense in many ways. Hamilton drives shot attempts for, both players are strong shot suppressors, and Brodie is an elite playmaker. Brodie is a passing defenseman and Hamilton a gunner. It actually has the potential to be a Keith-Seabrook type elite pairing. people forget that while those two were lighting it up offensively, it was usually Campbell(/Oduya)-Hjalmarsson handling the hardcore shutdown minutes. When Burns won the Norris, it was usually Vlasic-Braun handling those minutes. Neither Brodie nor Hamilton would have to be "carrying" the pairing so to speak.

4) This opens up a transition into a post-Giordano era - it's almost unbelievable how good he was at 34 years old but that's also terrifying. We don't know what Valimaki, Kulak, or Kylington are capable of - but we have seen Brodie handle top flight minutes and excel. It's short-sighed AF to not consider the possibility that a 30 year old Brodie and a 27 year old Hamilton are the next top pair in the NHL. You trade from a position of strength. I am a huge Kulak fan but what is the likelyhood he ever has a 40 point season in the NHL never mind 50? Likewise for the prospects. You can't put your eggs in that basket - producing offensively from the backend is not easily projectable as even strong producers at lower levels end up being defensive Dmen at this level. And you can't put your eggs in the Travis "11 points" Hamonic basket for that role.

Personally I see no reason to trade Hamilton or Brodie. We need a RW yes, but there are more solutions than hitting the panic button. Don't forget that two seasons ago Versteeg came in and pretty much fixed the power play. You can't underestimate PP specialists like that - Gagner, Versteeg, etc. If Ferland is giving you 20+ goals at ES and Versteeg or a Versteeg type is getting your PP in the top 10 playing that role, not having a "true #1RW" is purely academic. They shouldn't stop trying to acquire one at the right price, but trading for the sake of a trade is, as Tre put it, filling one hole and creating another.

[flamesfever]

Advantages in trading Hamilton:

1. His value is high, and he could potentially bring us the increased scoring potential we need

2. Brodie could be put back with Gio, and if he succeeds as he has in the past, the loss of Hamilton would be minimal

3. We would probably have fewer penalties

4. It would allow our excellent defensive prospects a greater opportunity to come up

I honestly feel that something major should happen to get this team back where it should be.

[N-E-B]

Dougie Hamilton just led the entire National Hockey League in goals by a defenseman as a 24 year old. He was part of one of the best pairings in the league. He would absolutely get us a good return because he's the type of defenseman every team wants, including us.

Trading Hamilton would be a monumental mistake. Trade Brodie or one of our three good defense prospects. Part of having a strong farm means having the ability to sell them off for help elsewhere. Sure the return might not be as good but I'm willing to bet Brodie still fetches us a very nice return, and if we added one of Kylington/Fox/Andersson it would be even nicer.

I'm all for trading from the blueline to help up front, but not if it's Dougie Hamilton. I'd trade Gio before I'd trade Hamilton.

[Gord Wappel]

I'm all for dealing a decent defenceman to for a decent forward.
I'm in Ontario so all I hear now is how leafs need elite defencemen.
I'm sure there's other teams in same boat but I'd think it possible to pry one of leafs young elite forwards this off season but it would take a valuable defenceman from us. We have to accept the risk that some of our defence prospects pan out and sooner than later.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Dougie Hamilton just led the entire National Hockey League in goals by a defenseman as a 24 year old. He was part of one of the best pairings in the league. He would absolutely get us a good return because he's the type of defenseman every team wants, including us.

Trading Hamilton would be a monumental mistake. Trade Brodie or one of our three good defense prospects. Part of having a strong farm means having the ability to sell them off for help elsewhere. Sure the return might not be as good but I'm willing to bet Brodie still fetches us a very nice return, and if we added one of Kylington/Fox/Andersson it would be even nicer.

I'm all for trading from the blueline to help up front, but not if it's Dougie Hamilton. I'd trade Gio before I'd trade Hamilton.

Without Gio, this team would be a bottom 3 defensive team. Gio's incredible defensive play and covering up for Dougie's miscues this season cannot be understated.

Personally I wouldn't trade Gio because of how little depth we have on the left side and we legitimately have no one else in this system who can step in and take his place.

If we can snag John Carlson off the UFA market then I would be ok with trading Dougie. Carlson had 15 goals and 68 points and would be a fine replacement. If we could acquire a top young forward to boot, it would be an absolute win-win situation.

[Toonage]

Gio isn't going anywhere. Mid 30s and as fit and healthy as guys 10 years younger. He's a genetic freak. Flames lucked out with him.

Agree that if they trade a D its going to Brodie and/or one of the kids.

[Roof-Daddy]

I don't see them trading Hamilton unless he asks for a trade.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't see them trading Hamilton unless he asks for a trade.

And this begs the question - how much did moving his brother out piss him off?