For as long as humans have been working in collectives? Those with education have always been the leaders and the top earners. Still holds true today.
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Originally Posted by jayswin
Wait, you're saying this like they do teach it in America? That would certainly go against perception.
Media literacy is taught in some parts of the country, and in some education programs. There is a move a foot to make media literacy mandatory at all levels of education, but that sees a lot of opposition, especially from private and charter schools. You are right though, you would never know the subject was taught based on the number of people that can't determine the quality of media they consume.
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Most people in the West today, I'd guess 80+ per cent, find leftist identity politics to be obnoxious folly. Among that 80+ per cent of people are the 10 per cent or so who are white nationalists, or alt-right. Any scathing indictment of the far left is going to be cheered by the far right. That's only concerning if you're trapped in binary thinking and believe there is only Left and Right - if you don't understand that the great majority of people dislike both the far left and far right.
You've said this a few times and I have no earthly clue where you are getting it from.
The 80%+ chunk of people would be people who don't care one or the other about it. Its a bubble issue for people who spend too much time on Twitter or Facebook.
For every 100 women aged 25 to 49 with a university degree in 2006, 84 men had a comparable education. In 1981, the ratio was 157 men for every 100 women. The result is that women are now less likely than men to find a partner with the same level of education.
Interpreted another way, in the 80's with so many more men than women having a university degree, having a partner with a university education is a positive marker for marriage.
In comparison with a site like Okcupid, their millennial users reported a lesser need for education.
Perhaps expectedly, daters with a graduate degree are most likely to consider a B.A. mandatory in a mate, followed by those with a college-level education. But even among OkCupid members who attended grad school, only 46% of women and 35% of men said they wouldn’t date someone because he or she hadn’t gone to college.
Women are the primary breadwinners in 38 percent of all heterosexual marriages, according to 2009 figures with the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Within couples that have both a man and a woman making money, women earn more than their husbands in 29 percent.
Those numbers have steadily risen over the years, but so have the number of marriages that end in divorce. And studies have shown the two could be related – with a very simple catch.
For as long as humans have been working in collectives? Those with education have always been the leaders and the top earners. Still holds true today.
Media literacy is taught in some parts of the country, and in some education programs. There is a move a foot to make media literacy mandatory at all levels of education, but that sees a lot of opposition, especially from private and charter schools. You are right though, you would never know the subject was taught based on the number of people that can't determine the quality of media they consume.
Bull. Bullies have often, if not most often, been on the top of the status ladder for most of history. Family connections, and the ability to use violence judiciously to their benefit were the big reasons for historical status. Even up until very recently, nerds were in no way at the top of the heap. Far, far from it.
When I was a kid, I was told that in the end, the nerds would be in charge. Let me tell you, that is sadly far from the truth even now.
Bull. Bullies have often, if not most often, been on the top of the status ladder for most of history. Family connections, and the ability to use violence judiciously to their benefit were the big reasons for historical status. Even up until very recently, nerds were in no way at the top of the heap. Far, far from it.
When I was a kid, I was told that in the end, the nerds would be in charge. Let me tell you, that is sadly far from the truth even now.
“Bullies” and “the educated” are not mutually exclusive.
You’re playing off stereotypes. The people who rise to the top are the smartest people in the room, but they’re also determined and can also be ruthless when it counts.
“Nerds” who don’t have the drive, confidence, or ability, end up no better than anyone else (maybe worse off), but you don’t need to be a nerd to be educated.
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Bull. Bullies have often, if not most often, been on the top of the status ladder for most of history. Family connections, and the ability to use violence judiciously to their benefit were the big reasons for historical status. Even up until very recently, nerds were in no way at the top of the heap. Far, far from it.
Education=/= nerd.
Throughout human history those with education were our leaders. Those that could read and write were immediately elevated above those who could not. This is why families who had achieved power made sure they educated their offspring in the finest educational institutions available to them, whether they be the resident religious institution, or later actual schools and universities. Those that could read maintained power because they were the ones who made the rules - the laws and doctrine people followed. The ignorant masses were the workforce, but those who could read, write, engineer, and could reason, were the ones in positions of power.
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When I was a kid, I was told that in the end, the nerds would be in charge. Let me tell you, that is sadly far from the truth even now.
Your anecdotal evidence aside, tell me how many blue collar workers are top wage earners in society? Tell me how many in congress have basic education? Tell me how many CEOs or C-level employees do not have advanced degrees of some sort? How about you look at job reqs for top positions in the most powerful industries and tell me how many of them have minimum quals starting with a GED? Education, and advanced education is a requirement for getting a head in our society, and is a primary need for anyone who wants to have any power. Without basic education you can't function in modern society. Without advanced education you have no hope of attaining the heights where you become a leader. There may be a few exceptions to the rule, but that is the axiom society has followed since people started living in large communities.
I don't see any indications of Peterson as misogynistic at all. It sounds like he relies on his wife and daughter as his foundation and has a huge respect and reliance on women but he wants to keep those gender roles traditional. What he is against is feminism and other pieces of identity politics that he thinks is going to bring on the end of the world.
More and more I seem to grasp his deeper agenda and worldview that is staunchly Hobbes/Burke mixed with Christian myths as his foundation. He really thinks society will destroy itself if we give into identity politics, post-modernism, and neo-marxism (even if those things don't naturally align with each other).
There is a wild-eyed man beneath the well meaning intellectual but there is also a lot of compassion there. He's just gone off the deep end a bit as his wealth (he's made millions in a short time frame) and celebrity has empowered his deepest impulses to preach rather than teach.
I still enjoy listening to a lot of old lectures. There is real value there. Just take all his proclaimed truths with a grain of salt and question his sources and research because he's apt to distort or generalize.
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Anyone interested in a good discussion of evolutionary psychology, sex selection, and moral psychology might want to give the latest Sam Harris podcast a listen. The guest, Geoffrey Miller, has some interesting takes on the subjects. One especially astute observation is that the people who most strongly condemn the science of human nature and heredity today will be at the front of the line once selection of genetic traits in children becomes viable.
Yeah... although that Christine Elizabeth person is one of the dumbest people I've had to listen to this week, so that was annoying. The air horn thing at the end was pretty cathartic honestly.
I wonder what the rest of his conversation with Peterson was like. He only posted maybe five or six ten second clips from it. The longest bit was the gay wedding cake thing and that was really the only bit where a point got out.
Sam Harris mentioned on that podcast that he was going to be doing some events in Vancouver with Peterson pretty soon. I imagine that'll be pretty excruciating to sit through. It's probably sold out.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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These are such excellent videos that sums um my frustrations of what has been happening on the left, these people who want to stifle free speech and are NOT liberals because liberalism is clearly not about what these people think it is.
Highly recommend these two videos and his many other great videos, including excellent videos addressing Jordan's nonsense when it comes to his stance on religion.
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These are such excellent videos that sums um my frustrations of what has been happening on the left, these people who want to stifle free speech and are NOT liberals because liberalism is clearly not about what these people think it is.
This guy is awesome. I love his approach and lack of hysteria.
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These are such excellent videos that sums um my frustrations of what has been happening on the left, these people who want to stifle free speech and are NOT liberals because liberalism is clearly not about what these people think it is.
Thanks for that. Now I have a new Youtube channel to subscribe to.
"They both see the problem, but they disagree on what to call it."
They're both correct that it's not leftism in any traditional sense. The conspicuous neglect of the very existence of class in progressive circles today proves that. Progressivism has become a movement of the affluent and educated, and its champions are openly contemptuous of the lifestyle and values of the working class, and heedless of their deep sense of abandonment. Progressive columnists, bloggers, professors, and pundits complain that we never talk about race as a society (in media outlets that run 6-9 stories a week about race), while neglecting to acknowledge that they, their colleagues, and their friends were virtually all born to parents in wealthiest 10-20 per cent of society. Inter-generational affluence - the privilege that dare not speak its name.
No, what we're seeing on today's 'left' is a moral panic. A collective yearning for sanctity, conformity, authority, and solace - the kinds of emotional needs that were once fulfilled by religion. For the True Believers anyway. For the centre-left, it's a matter of being nice. A whole cluster of ideological beliefs formulated by radicals have become social norms in polite company without any genuine debate, or even conscious recognition of what has been abandoned.
I've come to believe we're seeing the limits of rationality. That the Enlightenment was never as deeply rooted as we assumed. I don't know if it's social media and how it exploits our least rational impulses that's to blame for our headlong plunge into tribalism. Maybe it's just a consequence of time - we've enjoyed the benefits of the rule of law, universalism, tolerance of different values, the presumption of innocence, and free speech for so long that we've lost the cultural memory of how dreadful the alternatives are. We may well find out first-hand that when we tear down the liberal structures that support our society it's not green and virgin meadows we'll find beneath, but a smouldering abyss.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 06-22-2018 at 10:34 AM.
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I don't think we've seen the limits to rationality. I prefer to think of it as a natural Hegelian dialectic cycle towards progression with the inevitable pendulum swings along the way.
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I think this snap back towards tribalism is culture shock due to the mass information being readily available at everyone's finger tips, nothing could have braced our culture for this transition and some sort of cultural spasm was bound to occur. I think it is inherent that knowledge breeds refinement and in the long run this is just a hiccup.
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I think this snap back towards tribalism is culture shock due to the mass information being readily available at everyone's finger tips, nothing could have braced our culture for this transition and some sort of cultural spasm was bound to occur. I think it is inherent that knowledge breeds refinement and in the long run this is just a hiccup.
Dan Carlin's latest podcast addresses this. We're in the midst of such a radical and rapid transformation of our communication and social networks that nobody understand what's going on anymore.
But as Carlin says, how do you dial back this level of hate once it's unleashed? Once incendiary partisanship becomes the default way people talk about politics and social concerns? I suppose you can look back at other times of extreme social conflict, like the late 60s (anyone who thinks politics has gone off the deep end today needs to read about the #### that went down in 1968) and see that society can recover a new equilibrium. Maybe people will simply get exhausted at some point.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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