[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Do you think this is a complete fabrication?

The fact this was leaked to the media means the Mayor will have to answer it.

Way to ruin your term two months in.

This is a complete clown show no matter which side of the issue you are on. It's funny how the pendulum of blame has swung back and forth between CSEC and the City of Calgary.

Hopefully the adults get involved for Round 3 and something finally gets done.

Please look into Corbella’s history as a shill, and then look up the difference between a column and a news article.


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[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Are you Jyoti’s lap dog?

Last I checked I’m human and not a dog.

None of the comments in posts against her are based in comprehension of all of the facts. They just come off as Rick Bell wannabes.

Rabble rabble City Hall rabble rabble. Fake news debunked, but ignored. Resume rabble rabble.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Clearly they have donated millions of dollars. They don’t just put your name on a building for being a nice guy. Maybe we do owe them one!!

That’s nice and all, but if I donate $200 to the library, I don’t ask Mustard Seed for $600 back later.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Please look into Corbella’s history as a shill, and then look up the difference between a column and a news article.


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Please try not to be a condescending jerk.

[zamler]

This thread is just like the CSEC/City negotiations one giant pissing contest.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Please try not to be a condescending jerk.

Says the person who called all involved on this project to date, children.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Says the person who called all involved on this project to date, children.

Wow, you got me there.

Maybe just block me then. I'll do the same.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Wow, you got me there.

Maybe just block me then. I'll do the same.

If that’s what you’re into. I’m actually surprised I’m not blocked by everyone already.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by timun

One of the Keynote towers is commercial, FYI.

I think your point here is actually quite far off the mark. I wouldn't say that Vic Park, or at least the parts of Vic Park close to the Stampede grounds, are significantly improved from "the crackhouse days". It's just a sea of parking lots, interrupted by a single, solitary block with three condo towers on it.

Being close to the Stampede grounds is no great benefit that spurred the development of Keynote, Vetro, Sasso, Alura and Nuera: it would have happened anyway. They don't interface whatsoever with the Stampede grounds. In fact those buildings have their backs turned to the Stampede grounds; everything about their design is oriented away from the Stampede grounds. The Stampede/Saddledome have had no positive influence on their development whatsoever.

Arriva and the Guardian towers I would credit more to the improvements CMLC made to the area by building the 4th St SE underpass, better tying the area into the East Village. If not for that project being on the books I doubt those three condos would have gone up.


The way Vic Park east of Macleod and north of 14th Ave was hollowed out into an urban wasteland of asphalt is proof positive that "event centres" do precisely jack #### to spur development. The idea that a new arena was going to magically make this the hip place to go and live is non-sense; the entire premise is bunk.

They should tear the condos down and rebuild the crack houses.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

If that’s what you’re into. I’m actually surprised I’m not blocked by everyone already.

I am too

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Seriously?

If he's a shill for anyone it sure as hell isn't the city.

Just check out the comments here: https://flamesnation.ca/2022/01/13/c...ild-a-new-one/

[Slava]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Corbella shouldn't be relied upon to provide any fact-based reporting on this matter:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1482031287141421058

https://twitter.com/user/status/1482125964892983296

Meanwhile Sean Chu is getting all of his information on this matter from her only it seems based on his comments/questions in council.

I've also seen Freeway (Ryan Pike) get called a city shill for trying to just report on the actual facts of this matter.

I'm honestly shocked that so many people are just falling for the trap of this opinion piece.

People are assuming that an emergency council meeting would have changed anything from the city's perspective. It wouldn't have. This was CSEC's decision that they made ending the agreement trying to blame it on green initiatives and sidewalks when it was the rising costs. The lack of honesty from CSEC is infuriating.

I don’t know how you figure a meeting wouldn’t have changed anything. Here we are less than two weeks later trying to get people back to the table. Surely that type of approach could’ve been started in December?

It’s crazy to me that that attitude from the city in response to the deal failing wasn’t reconciliation and trying to move forward. It’s a huge project for the city, and when some councillors wanted to meet and have a discussion the mayor basically brushes it off, and people are good with that?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Please try not to be a condescending jerk.

So no then? (You don't know the difference between a news article and column?)

Am I doing this right?

Originally Posted by timun

One of the Keynote towers is commercial, FYI.

I think your point here is actually quite far off the mark. I wouldn't say that Vic Park, or at least the parts of Vic Park close to the Stampede grounds, are significantly improved from "the crackhouse days". It's just a sea of parking lots, interrupted by a single, solitary block with three condo towers on it.

Being close to the Stampede grounds is no great benefit that spurred the development of Keynote, Vetro, Sasso, Alura and Nuera: it would have happened anyway. They don't interface whatsoever with the Stampede grounds. In fact those buildings have their backs turned to the Stampede grounds; everything about their design is oriented away from the Stampede grounds. The Stampede/Saddledome have had no positive influence on their development whatsoever.

Arriva and the Guardian towers I would credit more to the improvements CMLC made to the area by building the 4th St SE underpass, better tying the area into the East Village. If not for that project being on the books I doubt those three condos would have gone up.


The way Vic Park east of Macleod and north of 14th Ave was hollowed out into an urban wasteland of asphalt is proof positive that "event centres" do precisely jack #### to spur development. The idea that a new arena was going to magically make this the hip place to go and live is non-sense; the entire premise is bunk.

I think we're actually pretty close to agreement. My post was in response to a claim that Vic Park is a redevelopment failure...

It's quite natural that VP would develop from the core-side outwards, and of course they tend to face west.

I agree that big buildings do very little to catalyze development. My only argument is that parking lots (pretty nice ones at that) are better than crackhouses.

And the brick facade bigger BMO Centre + casino is better than the grey box Round Up Centre + ugly parking lots that preceded them

[curves2000]

Listen, let's cut the BS here and understand that this is going to be a very very strong negotiation and the city needs to be on it's A game and we can't have rookies making the calls here. We need strong representation here because the Calgary Flames ownership group is brining their A game and they know business.

They made a very risky move by getting rid of CMLC for this deal and have now managed to exit this and put the risk back onto taxpayers and the city.

The Mayor and council are being completely dishonest pieces of garbage by indicating it's to early to say if this is going to cost taxpayers more than the original deal. We already know it will cost ten's of millions more, end of story. You can't so much as buy a loaf of bread in this environment and not know your getting ****ed by inflation, let alone building a massive, complex structure.

The city better extract some additional item's as a result of this new deal in exchange for additional cash contribution from the city. To all the progressives on council and in the mayor office, this is their opportunity to assist and help the little guy and girl as much as possible.

I hate to say it but most of the people on council and in the Mayor's office have some pretty low grade overall business and lackluster resumes overall. The people who are in the position like Murray Edwards are the type of people who are of vastly higher intellect and can actually out perform in business. They see things at a different level than "normal" people and are usually on the inside track by sure financial and political capital.

As soon as the Flames and Oilers ownership groups announced in August that effective September 15th, their facilities and businesses would require proof of vaccination in order to attend, I knew Alberta was getting a Vax Passport. Government MLA and Jason Kenney was feeding the common Albertan a bunch of BS but behind the scenes the big dogs were making plans for their multi billion dollar businesses that generate hundreds of million in revenue.

Low and behold, in the middle of September Kenney dropped the bomb about the Vax Passport as some urgent last minute system that needed to be enacted.

I will repeat that the city needs to be able to get some additional wins in exchange for the additional boatload of cash we are going to be sending the wealthiest people in Canada. It can't just be the little guy always on the losing end of things.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by curves2000

As soon as the Flames and Oilers ownership groups announced in August that effective September 15th, their facilities and businesses would require proof of vaccination in order to attend, I knew Alberta was getting a Vax Passport. Government MLA and Jason Kenney was feeding the common Albertan a bunch of BS but behind the scenes the big dogs were making plans for their multi billion dollar businesses that generate hundreds of million in revenue.

Low and behold, in the middle of September Kenney dropped the bomb about the Vax Passport as some urgent last minute system that needed to be enacted.

Not sure what Covid restrictions have to do with arena negotiations.

Also, are you trying to say that Flames and Oilers ownership told Kenney to put in restrictions on attendance? and that somehow that was going to generate hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue?

Is this a disguised vaccine rant?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Not sure what Covid restrictions have to do with arena negotiations.

Also, are you trying to say that Flames and Oilers ownership told Kenney to put in restrictions on attendance? and that somehow that was going to generate hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue?

Is this a disguised vaccine rant?

Don't you see? This guy is just operating a different level than us "normal" people. He's connected all the dots.

[SebC]

Pretty sure they're just saying the Flames owners predicted or had an inside scoop that a vaccine passport was coming so took actions to mitigate it. Which might be evidence that the Flames got an inside scoop, or it could just mean that the looked at rising hospitalizations and knew that action would be necessary.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

A while back I looked through EDM and CGY event calendars for 2018:

CGY missed out on:

Old Dominion
Avenged Sevenfold
Brantley Gilbert
Jeff Dunham
Shania Twain (2 nights)
Paul McCartney
Drake (2 nights)


We got and they didn't (unless it was at a different venue in EDM):
Ellen Degeneres
Stars on Ice
Brad Paisley (Stampede)
Luke Bryan (Stampede)
UFC
Cirque Wonderland
Fleetwood Mac? (I know they've postponed show(s) in the last few years due to illness, not sure if this one happened or was a re-schedule)


It certainly skews in EDM's favour, but not by that much. Even if/when we do get a strong-roofed arena, there is no guarantee we get every big show that comes through EDM. The balance probably comes a lot closer, but there will still be shows that only do one city or the other.

That is a grim list of acts.


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[RM14]

City planning is more concerned on 5 to 10 years from now. Comparing what happed is useless.

Edmonton probably benefits with more shows if Calgary can too as it is more attractive for big tours to come to Alberta if both cities can support modern entertainment.

[MegaErtz]

I'd like to see a mandatory minimum number of months that any deal would be subject to public review before it is voted on. That snake Davison managed to sneak through a deal in less than a week with no public consultation whatsoever in the middle of summer 2019.