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Old 01-24-2022, 02:05 PM   #141
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Thatís part of it and probably canít be understated, but Germany is also already bearing a disproportionately high cost for the refugee crisis caused by wars that were not theirs. I canít blame them for being apprehensive about escalating things with Russia.

One German analyst I listened to yesterday also made a good point that unless NATO at least matched the number of Russian available troops and weaponry in Ukraine, then Ukraine loses no matter what. You can give them weapons, but eventually they wonít have the personnel to outlast Russia in a war. In the event Russia overthrows Ukraine, all the weapons you give then will just fall into Russian hands like a gift to them.

Thereíre really no halfway measures that work here. If you arenít ready to commit to a full scale war with Russia, then it might be better to not do anything that just prolongs the war. 16,000 killed since 2014 already. At some point you have to either cut your losses or go all in. I think Germany is staring to go with the first option and the other sides havenít committed to either direction.
Germany should probably look back in their history to see how well appeasement works with tyrants...
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Old 01-24-2022, 02:11 PM   #142
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The old running joke is why wouldn't Germany want to get involved in a war in the Ukraine? Well its not really global enough for them.
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Old 01-24-2022, 02:45 PM   #143
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I donít know if youíre a history buffÖ
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Old 01-24-2022, 03:00 PM   #144
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Okay, being reliant on Russia is bad news....but more than half our country is reliant on Saudi Arabia and Venezuela.

The Germans...they're the Canary in the Coal Mine. Thats what happens when you make decisions based on optics and hesitance as opposed to doing what you know to be the more intelligent move.

They shut down coal usage which was good, but when people bitched about Nuclear they shut that down and thats why they're reliant on Russian gas.

Its strange to say....but they should be more like the French.

"You dont like Nuclear? We dont care what you like or dont like, we're going to do it anyways. And now partly just to piss you off."
Most of Canada's electricity is produced in country. We do import oil & perhaps even gas for other needs, but despite the morons running our country we still manage our own energy for the most part.

In comparison, Germany has completely shuttered their energy development, and is very dependent on Russia right now. I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with why Russia is being so aggressive right now, right?

Russia has leverage over Europe right now, and they are using it.

Its almost as if those idiots running the German government are being paid by Russia to shut down their nuclear programs.

France on the other hand is being a lot more aggressive against Russia. I wonder why that is. Might have something to do with the fact that France gets 80% of their electricity from in country nuclear sources.
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Old 01-24-2022, 05:44 PM   #145
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Germany should probably look back in their history to see how well appeasement works with tyrants...
True. Of course, Russia was already appeased twice recently with the occupation and annexations of parts of Georgia and Crimea. When you have nuclear weapons, it is easy for others to appease you.

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Most of Canada's electricity is produced in country. We do import oil & perhaps even gas for other needs, but despite the morons running our country we still manage our own energy for the most part.

In comparison, Germany has completely shuttered their energy development, and is very dependent on Russia right now. I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with why Russia is being so aggressive right now, right?

Russia has leverage over Europe right now, and they are using it.

Its almost as if those idiots running the German government are being paid by Russia to shut down their nuclear programs.

France on the other hand is being a lot more aggressive against Russia. I wonder why that is. Might have something to do with the fact that France gets 80% of their electricity from in country nuclear sources.
I don't know if this is just lip service, but since the end of WW2, one of the philosophies practiced in German politics is to create symbiotic economic relationships with historical adversaries to make it too economically painful and a deterrent to engaging in major wars in the future.

Having said that, I don't know enough about German-Russian trade and economic relations to know if Russia stands anything to lose, which would make the whole practice fail. Maybe not having them as a customer would hurt I guess.

The same philosophy was applied in other parts of the world, including the Balkans.
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Old 01-24-2022, 06:10 PM   #146
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Perhaps, but I know in realistic terms, having a stable energy supply means you do not need to be beholden to outside interests.

Putin has played this perfectly if he was going for a divisive Europe. Boggles the mind what Germany is thinking. A 5 year old could make smarter energy decisions.

We should always, always, always have a stable energy & food supply. Canada would be in a great position to lead the world on both fronts, and so far we only seem to give a #### about the food side of things.

The rest of the world is going green by buying gas from Putin. Gotta love it.
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Old 01-24-2022, 09:59 PM   #147
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I donít know if youíre a history buffÖ
Great bit by the great Norm

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