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Old 09-25-2018, 03:28 PM   #241
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This slideshow(sorry) provides some good points about Batman's importance.


https://variety.com/gallery/9-ways-t...-burton-batman


I agree that Batman Begins introduced the modern style of superhero movies, but it was building on Burton's creation.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:29 PM   #242
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Yeah, but most of those were shlocky junk.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:44 PM   #243
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The one that I think is getting overlooked here is the original Spider-Man.

Before that the most successful commercial superhero movie was Batman at $250M ($400M World Wide) but then after that no other Super Hero movie made more than $200M in the 13 years after that.

Until Spider-Man.

That movie grossed $400M domestically, $800M+ worldwide, and was a critical success at 90% on rotten tomatoes.

Really it was the framework for the modern super hero movie franchise that followed.

And the success of that movie is what kicked off the Super Hero re-boot: Between 1989 (Batman) and 2002 (Spider-Man) there were only really 8 traditional comic book super hero movies.

Between 2002 and 2010 there were 20+. And you saw the return of the Batman series (Begins Trilogy), X-Men getting a huge push, Fantastic 4 series, Superman Returns, Iron Man, Daredevil, Punisher, the start of the Marvel Cinematic universe etc.

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Old 09-25-2018, 04:06 PM   #244
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The one that is overlooked was the first Blade movie.
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Old 09-25-2018, 04:11 PM   #245
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I think there are 4 watershed comic book movie moments. It is probably more accurate to describe it as a slow burn and a progression but there are clearly, IMO, 4 major events.

Superman. Showed superheroes could be more than a campy Batman TV show. If this movie never gets made then Tim Burton's Batman definitely never gets made. They had actual Oscar winning/nominated actors in a superhero film. People forget how big of a deal that is.

Batman 1989. This once again helped push the comic craze and make superhero movies not just mainstream, but dark and moody.

Then we have a big lull. Mostly, IMO, because of the special effects requirements needing to catch up. That and the comic industry falling fat on its face.

Then we have X-Men in 2000. I think this is the most important movie on this list. Everything starts here. Batman Begins never happens without X-Men. This is the one that started it all (with honorable mention to Blade but it didn't have a wide enough mainstream audience to get the credit it probably deserves). None of the current MCU or DCU exist without X-Men.

Iron Man 2007. This ushered in the true golden age of superhero cinema because without this movie we have no MCU.


I love Batman Begins but it doesn't even make my list of the 4 major moments in comic book movie history. There were other dark, gritty movies already released or in production when it came out.

If there's any movie I'm leaving off it is 1989 Batman to add Batman Begins. The other 3 on the list aren't debatable. What did Begins do? Yeah it made Batman famous again but he's never struggled that much in public consciousness. He's been up there as a cultural icon with Superman for the last 50 plus years. Does it make the list just because it was a bit more serious in tone than the stuff Marvel was putting out? It wasn't a trendsetter the way X-Men was, not even close. And I don't think there's enough of a legacy to justify putting Begins on the list in place of Iron Man. I just don't see the major game changing influence that those 4 movies have with Begins. It made gritty, earnest superhero movies more mainstream but not a lot beyond that IMO.

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Old 09-25-2018, 05:27 PM   #246
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As much as I'd like to argue X-Men in favour of Spider-Man, if you followed the Spider-Man development history, you'll know it was independent of X-Men happening.

In fact, in the early 90s, there was a script by James Cameron that, arguably, had the first true gritty Superhero story. Laced with profanity and a sex scene between Peter and Mary Jane. It got stuck in development hell due to legal right issues which cumulated in MGM giving up its supposed rights to Spider-Man in exchange for Columbia giving up its rights to Bond. It was immediately considered to be a big film franchise and was speculated that it would have over a $200,000.00 budget and big names attached a year before X-Men came out. (It is listed with a budget of $139M, but that doesn't include advertising so it probably exceeded the $200M budget)

Spider-Man eventually made it's way to Raimi and Koepp, who took Cameron's screenplay, modified it and then had Rosenberg make significant changes. Again, before X-Men was even released. Fun note, Cameron was going to be credited as a writer but voluntarily turned it down. Here's some concept art of Cameron's screenplay: https://io9.gizmodo.com/5447698/what...ve-looked-like

So, it becomes a bit of a question of if Spider-Man would have done as well as it did at the Box Office if not for X-Men. X-Men did provide a sense of credibility to movie viewers that could be argued why Spider-Man came out with a 100M first weekend box office. But realistically, it's a hit either way. And probably a bigger reason for Nolan's Batman Begins.
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Old 09-25-2018, 06:05 PM   #247
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X-Men and Hugh Jackman are a huge landmark for superhero movies. Wolverines relationship with Rogue to this day remains one of my favourite in movies. Great cast but Jackmans wolverine made the movie what it was.
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Old 09-25-2018, 09:49 PM   #248
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The Avengers is the most important comic book movie. To that point the cinematic universe was just a cool idea that no one knew if it would work or not. It worked, and it smashed all the records.

Remember, of all the phase 1 stuff, only Iron Man was really a big hit. Avengers took the MCU to the stratosphere and it and comic book movies haven’t looked back.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:42 AM   #249
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Its cool reading everyones take on most important superhero film. Because superhero films are so new, I remember about 90% of those films and the anticipation and watching them in theatres. You can't do that for any other genre, most of the all time classics are so old they only exist to me on home video. It's a great time to be a fan and I don't think this genre is going away anytime soon.
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Old 09-26-2018, 08:03 AM   #250
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Spoiler!


First look at Aquaman in his classic costume!
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Old 09-26-2018, 08:41 AM   #251
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Dark Phoenix trailer on James Corden tonight, probably all over the internet shortly thereafter.
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Old 09-26-2018, 03:29 PM   #252
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New rumor has who Pedro Pascal is playing in WW84
Spoiler!
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Old 09-26-2018, 03:48 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadal Fan View Post
New rumor has who Pedro Pascal is playing in WW84
Spoiler!
Well....Pedro Pascal is pretty awesome, what if she leaves Steve Trevor for someone else who has two first names and then everything just takes an unshakably dark shift in tone.....

You'd think...no....Pedro Pascal, Gal Gadot and Chris Pine? What could go wrong?

DC....its their stock in trade.
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Old 09-26-2018, 04:10 PM   #254
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Considering the first Wonder Woman was a solid 4/10 in my books, I don't have high expectations for this one.
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Old 09-26-2018, 04:20 PM   #255
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You could've told me Maxwell Lord was playing Pedro Pascal and I'd have been none the wiser.
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Old 09-26-2018, 06:01 PM   #256
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I know we were just talking about the most important superhero films, I think in 10 years we could look back and include Wonder Woman on that list. It's impact is already being felt with Captain Marvel and Birds of Prey getting developed along with the rumored Black Widow movie. Being the first great female superhero film is something that is a big deal and has already changed the game. It's another inflection point in the history of Superhero cinema.
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Old 09-26-2018, 06:04 PM   #257
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Notwithstanding comments in this thread, I think Wonder Woman was fantastic.

The importance of girls seeing a comic book movie where the girl can stand toe to toe with anyone was really important.
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Old 09-26-2018, 11:49 PM   #258
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Old 09-27-2018, 07:14 AM   #259
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Hmm, I'm intrigued but not exactly blown away either.
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Old 09-27-2018, 07:43 AM   #260
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Yeah it doesn't look bad. I just don't think interest is there. Apocalypse was awful and everyone is already looking ahead to how Marvel is going to reboot the franchise and integrate it into the MCU. Kind of feels like going through the motions.

And gee, I wonder if Magneto will form an uneasy alliance with the good X-Men before betraying them and trying to kill all the humans. Like the last six movies...
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