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Old 06-30-2022, 04:29 PM   #4801
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Can't blame the Flames at this point IF what they're saying true.

It's up to Johnny. If he really wants to stay and make the big payday, the offers on the table.


Now we wait.
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:30 PM   #4802
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Heard earlier today from a source that is very tied into the org and has shared some really early news with me in the past that Johnny is really close to returning. Take that for what you will!
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:30 PM   #4803
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What was the incident?
I can't believe I had to go through 7 ####ing pages to find out no one revealed the Gaudreauvertime incident.
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:32 PM   #4804
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I’m guessing the Flames offered him $11-$11.5 million AAV over 8 years

Would be very difficult for any other team to match on a 7 year deal
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:32 PM   #4805
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If both of them leave, it’s a no brainer to start a rebuild.

Dreger just said he thinks Campbell will get 6 per on the market. Runner up Vezina and attractive pieces should be sold off.

If this was any other team that’s what would happen.

Imagine Boston losing Marchand and Bergeron
Colorado losing Mackinnon and Rantennen
Edmonton losing McDavid and Draisitle

If worst case scenario happens I would be irate if they somehow still try and continue without one of them.
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:34 PM   #4806
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I am really intrigued by the potential of a deal for Tkachuk and the number 2 pick if Shane Wright is available. He had some major hype before Covid but lost some development time. I see there being a risk that he turns out to be nothing close to what Tkachuk is today but if he has the potential to be a first line 2 way center that is one way to ease the cap crunch and plan for the future. I think the Devils need to add to that package as well so the Flames could get more futures like Holtz who has too 6 potential.

I think Tkachuk is exactly the player the Devils want with Hughes so they would be highly motivated to acquire him and pay him what he wants.
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:42 PM   #4807
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That is all that could be asked of Treliving and Flames ownership. My biggest concern was whether they tried to get a deal. If he decides to leave, then do your best with the players that you have.
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:45 PM   #4808
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Gaudreau will sign with the Flames on the 12th of July after finding out the offers from other teams aren't as attractive as Calgary's. If not, things will get really dark. Gaudreau will be gone, Tkachuk will sign his qualifying offer, Sutter will retire, and "The Rebuild" will be forced on the team. Treliving will be shown the door and the team will begin the "Great Sell-off" of anyone with value. The dominoes are set up. All they need is that first one to topple. I believe Gaudreau will stay and the only tough decision Treliving will have to make is which team to dump Mangiapane on to create cap space.
Some have been clamoring for a rebuild for years, so it may be the day that light shines for them. I wanted them to make trades last summer, but the market appeared terrible so I didn't blame them for staying put.
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:53 PM   #4809
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Gaudreau will sign with the Flames on the 12th of July after finding out the offers from other teams aren't as attractive as Calgary's. If not, things will get really dark. Gaudreau will be gone, Tkachuk will sign his qualifying offer, Sutter will retire, and "The Rebuild" will be forced on the team. Treliving will be shown the door and the team will begin the "Great Sell-off" of anyone with value. The dominoes are set up. All they need is that first one to topple. I believe Gaudreau will stay and the only tough decision Treliving will have to make is which team to dump Mangiapane on to create cap space.
If we do end up in a rebuild one day, I hope that Tree and Sutter are both here to begin it and see it through. I believe both are excellent at their jobs.

…but my ideal situation is still that Johnny signs in Calgary alongside Mang and Chucky and the Flames get rid of dead weight on their roster and manage to improve the top end on what we had last year.
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:58 PM   #4810
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If we do end up in a rebuild one day, I hope that Tree and Sutter are both here to begin it and see it through. I believe both are excellent at their jobs.

…but my ideal situation is still that Johnny signs in Calgary alongside Mang and Chucky and the Flames get rid of dead weight on their roster and manage to improve the top end on what we had last year.
A rebuild takes at least 6 yrs, Sutter is too old to stay for that. Treliving won’t because he already had 8 yrs and provided little success
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:14 PM   #4811
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this guy, you are really losing all credibility here
top prospect that said he would only play for the Rangers

Lindholm/Hanafin>Barzal and that's with hindsight drafting...last I checked Bruins didn't take him with that pick
How is saying they traded their top prospect losing credibility? He was competing for Valamaki at the time with the better analysts saying he was their top prospect: https://theathletic.com/196975/2018/...pects-ranking/

Yes, he had completed his second year in Havard and was going to be able to sign where he wanted in a couple years if he decided to get his degree, so the Flames made a great trade in getting something for him, but they still included their top prospect in a trade to acquire established players. That's very rarely a sign of a rebuild. I would say you would have to agree with me but it's looking like I could say that Iginla was drafted by Dallas and you would argue he was drafted by Florida for no other reason to disagree.

But that wasn't even the first trade in the chain. They traded their 2015 pick, an 18 year old player, for an older player in 2015. So trading first round picks for an established player, then trading that established player with a top prospect to get established players. They were both good trades resulting in quality players for the Flames, but they were not moves made by rebuilding teams. Saying they were not moves of a rebuilding team does not mean they aren't good trades, it means they aren't rebuilding moves. You guys like making up arguments in your head while ignoring the original discussion.

If tomorrow the Flames (or any team) acquired Yakupov, Galchenyuk and Reinhart from the 2012 draft, would that retroactively mean they were rebuilding in 2012 now? No? Then how does acquiring the 5th overall in 2015 in 2018 mean they were rebuilding in 2015?

As for Barzal, he was the faller that year (and Kylington). https://flamesnation.ca/2015/06/25/2015-nhl-mock-draft/ had him at 6 and Boston making a Juolevi x3 level of error you would have that Treliving would not make. And thank God they did. If they didn't try to be the smartest people in the room and just drafted Barzal, Connor and Chabot, we wouldn't even be having a discussion because it would be a foregone conclusion that this decade the Cup belongs to the Bruins.
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:26 PM   #4812
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They clearly didn’t start that year in rebuild mode but did you forget they traded Iginla, and Bouwmeester at the deadline and decided to embrace the rebuild? They entered the year with a new coach and hopes to compete. That team waited too long but on 2013 they decided to tear it down. Kipper also was shopped but refused to be moved.
I agree they started their rebuild with Iginla's trade.
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Older Hamilton was freshly 22 years old and already an established top 4 Dman. The same age as their Calder nominated first line forward Johnny Gaudreau. They also had 20 year old Sean Monahan scoring 30+, 18 year old Sam Bennett looking good in the playoffs and won a round the year before. They added a 22 year old and 27 year old in free agency.
Yes, who said anything otherwise? The Flames clearly saw this too. That's why they weren't patience and tried to finish their rebuild early by making moves like getting Hamilton, signing Frolik, moving picks for Smith and Stone shortly after. I'm not critiquing them looking at that team and thinking they compete, I'm just saying they saw that team and thought the "rebuild" was over.

It was between trading Iginla at the deadline of 2013 and then moving picks and prospects in the 2015 season that make the boundary of the "rebuild" for me. Before then they had intentions to try and win with the Wideman, Hudler and friend signings, after that they had the intention to win with the Hamilton trade, Frolik, signing. So about a year and a half (and in that boundary they drafted their top ever pick in Bennett).
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:36 PM   #4813
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Calgarypuck will probably crash if Gaudreau signs elsewhere, LOL.
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:38 PM   #4814
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Originally Posted by OptimalTates View Post
I agree they started their rebuild with Iginla's trade.

Yes, who said anything otherwise? The Flames clearly saw this too. That's why they weren't patience and tried to finish their rebuild early by making moves like getting Hamilton, signing Frolik, moving picks for Smith and Stone shortly after. I'm not critiquing them looking at that team and thinking they compete, I'm just saying they saw that team and thought the "rebuild" was over.

It was between trading Iginla at the deadline of 2013 and then moving picks and prospects in the 2015 season that make the boundary of the "rebuild" for me. Before then they had intentions to try and win with the Wideman, Hudler and friend signings, after that they had the intention to win with the Hamilton trade, Frolik, signing. So about a year and a half (and in that boundary they drafted their top ever pick in Bennett).

I don’t agree that trading picks for a young proven talent is the wrong move. It was the perfect move for a team that had just gone on a 2 round run.

Even with hindsight that was the right move. It lead to Lindholm and Hanifin who I want more than Barzal, the 2 2nds we would have got for Fox, and whatever we would have paid for Ferland or lost for nothing.

They rebuilt from 2013 through 2017/18 when they traded high picks for Hamonic. They then reset things a bit with the Hurricanes blockbuster where they got the second and third youngest players in the deal. So I think they rebuilt for 4.5 years
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:41 PM   #4815
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Calgarypuck will probably crash when Gaudreau signs wherever
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:47 PM   #4816
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Originally Posted by Vinny01 View Post
I am really intrigued by the potential of a deal for Tkachuk and the number 2 pick if Shane Wright is available. He had some major hype before Covid but lost some development time. I see there being a risk that he turns out to be nothing close to what Tkachuk is today but if he has the potential to be a first line 2 way center that is one way to ease the cap crunch and plan for the future. I think the Devils need to add to that package as well so the Flames could get more futures like Holtz who has too 6 potential.

I think Tkachuk is exactly the player the Devils want with Hughes so they would be highly motivated to acquire him and pay him what he wants.
If the Flames do trade Tkachuk (which I highly doubt will happen unless the cap forces it) I sure hope they get a lot more than the 2nd overall pick for him.

Imagine trading Tkachuk for what turns out to be Nolan Patrick version 2.0

This isn't likely a future Mackinnon we're talking about here.
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:48 PM   #4817
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I am not against a rebuild, but it would be a tough pill to swallow after a fairly successful season. How often does a team win their division after being at the top of it for practically the whole season, then go right into a rebuild the following season? I can't think of too many times rebuilds are triggered unless it's after a season that is a complete failure.
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:49 PM   #4818
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Originally Posted by Trojan97 View Post
Heard earlier today from a source that is very tied into the org and has shared some really early news with me in the past that Johnny is really close to returning. Take that for what you will!
Always appreciate stuff like this on here. Thanks

All I want is for dissentowner to be able to gloat, laugh at us doubters and say he told us so.
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Old 06-30-2022, 06:07 PM   #4819
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1542569800098103297



Looks like you can cross the “Forsberg back-up plan” off the list
BuT iF hE wANteD tO stAY hE woULd'Ve sIgNeD ALreADy, tHeY'vE beEn oUt eVEr sInCE thEiR 4 gAme sWeeP
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Old 06-30-2022, 06:08 PM   #4820
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I don’t agree that trading picks for a young proven talent is the wrong move. It was the perfect move for a team that had just gone on a 2 round run.
Who said wrong? The trade was great, even if they knew Barzal would drop and would have taken him, it's still a risk when drafting 18 year olds that Hamilton didn't have as a young established better than solid blueliner. In a vacuum it's a trade you make 10 out of 10 times.

But moving a 1st and 2 2nds for an established player because the team surprised and got to the second round and now you want to try and compete by trading away futures for established players, is that not the opposite of a "rebuild" period? If you're trading futures to compete now, that's the end of the rebuild, if you're trading players for futures to (hopefully) compete with later, that's a rebuild. No?
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