Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

Hahaha, because Canada being synonymous with setting low targets and consistently failing to meet them is sooo smirk worthy. Hahaha.

Look, we suck, but so does Chechnya, lol. And Belgium, lmao!

You confused Czechia and Chechnya. I stand corrected, people are laughing at us.

Take some of that money we're saving on not reaching a 2% target that only a third of the countries in it are reaching and spend it on geography lessons, maybe then we won't be the world's laughing stock.

[CaptainCrunch]

The whole getting the spending to 2% really is kind of irrelevant.


Frankly, The Forces is far beyond a fairly minor bump in spending in order to fix itself.


With our submarines rusting out. The crap show that is the new naval ship building program, the F-35 purchase. We have no significant air defense platforms. We've pretty much sent most of our artillary, shells and anti-tank weapons to the Ukraine. Our kit is obsolete. We really are clueless in terms of an actual plan for our forces. Peacekeeping as a concept is a dismal failure, and even with the bump we're nowhere near able to respond to the way the world is changing.



In order to prevent the rapidly approaching rust out, especially around our ground forces, there would need to be a fairly massive capital spend.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The whole getting the spending to 2% really is kind of irrelevant.


Frankly, The Forces is far beyond a fairly minor bump in spending in order to fix itself.


With our submarines rusting out. The crap show that is the new naval ship building program, the F-35 purchase. We have no significant air defense platforms. We've pretty much sent most of our artillary, shells and anti-tank weapons to the Ukraine. Our kit is obsolete. We really are clueless in terms of an actual plan for our forces. Peacekeeping as a concept is a dismal failure, and even with the bump we're nowhere near able to respond to the way the world is changing.



In order to prevent the rapidly approaching rust out, especially around our ground forces, there would need to be a fairly massive capital spend.

At this point why are we even bothering. The CF can’t attract recruits and isn’t retaining enough members either. As you pointed out, literally almost all of our kit is rusted out, obsolete or the quality is questionable (Sikorsky choppers). Why not just have a really good coast guard at this point. It’s been clear for decades no government has any interest in keeping the CF modern so why bother anymore.

[timun]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I still think the 2% of GDP target is at least partially just the American government indirectly subsidizing the American defence industry. It's bullying their NATO allies into buying American guns/planes/trucks/etc.

Food for thought: the US military budget is triple what the rest of NATO spends, combined. The Americans would argue they have to spend this much because the rest of us don't pull our weight, but the amount is still just absolutely ludicrous.

The list of US "enemies" is open to interpretation, but for the sake of discussion let's say it includes China, Russia, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba. Their combined military spending is about $320 billion dollars.

The US alone spends almost two-and-a-half times more ($750 billion).

[Northendzone]

^ years ago during the initial war in iraq i think the CNBC website had a summary of some of the equipment the us was using such as the F14 aircraft, and the summary would list the cost and number of the particular piece of equipment and it was mind blowing to think the US had something like 400 F14's at $80m each (those numbers are not meant to be real i just used them to illustrate the huge investment in military equipment) as of course then you have to conider all the otehr tanks, jeeps, ships etc, then guns, ammo, payroll.....it is truly a mind boggling figure

[timun]

Guess how much the US has spent on its military over the last 20 years.














About $12,000,000,000,000. That's twelve trillion dollars, for those who lost count of the zeroes. It's more than the combined annual GDP of the bottom 190 or so countries on the planet; more than the combined annual GDP of the entire continents of South America, Africa and Oceania.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by timun

Guess how much the US has spent on its military over the last 20 years.














About $12,000,000,000,000. That's twelve trillion dollars, for those who lost count of the zeroes. It's more than the combined annual GDP of the bottom 190 or so countries on the planet; more than the combined annual GDP of the entire continents of South America, Africa and Oceania.

Yeah, and are those dollars even Inflation Adjusted?

But Universal Health Care is too expensive.

Killing people is cheaper.

[Superflyer]

I don't know how to post twitter links on here but I guess Poilievre is leading a "Freedom\Convoy" march in Nepean

https://twitter.com/_llebrun/status/...PTPI3uL7j6lKcg

[BlackArcher101]

Marching with James Topp... now there is zero question who he is hoping votes for him.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Marching with James Topp... now there is zero question who he is hoping votes for him.

Imagine Pierre Polievre as PM. He would clearly get rid of the Code of Service Discipline and create a freedumb military. One where each individuals freedumbs were respected and cherished. It would be a new approach to operational effectiveness. It would be an interesting approach, arguably the most anti-military thing a government could do.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Imagine Pierre Polievre as PM. He would clearly get rid of the Code of Service Discipline and create a freedumb military. One where each individuals freedumbs were respected and cherished. It would be a new approach to operational effectiveness. It would be an interesting approach, arguably the most anti-military thing a government could do.

You know how we all hate Ontario and Toronto... well they are saving Canada's ass from electing deplorables like 2X4. jesus.

[Harry Lime]

Is there a point to buying equipment that is a replacement for what we already have had, only updated? Some of this is essential, I understand that, but what I mean is it time for some out of the box thinking in terms of the general makeup of our military?

This might be an opportunity for systemic change, if we need pretty much everything to be purchased.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Is there a point to buying equipment that is a replacement for what we already have had, only updated? Some of this is essential, I understand that, but what I mean is it time for some out of the box thinking in terms of the general makeup of our military?

This might be an opportunity for systemic change, if we need pretty much everything to be purchased.

LOL they can't even decide on new sleeping bags, or pistols, let alone replacing kit with new kit.


The Liberal's promised systematic changes when they were first elected, that went completely by the way side.

[jayswin]

They also talked a big game in bringing Afghans to Canada earlier this year. My friend worked with the Canadian army in Afghanistan and was eventually offered citizenship here. He has been in dire straights, literally tearing up when taking about his brothers and sisters and aging father back home and the fight to bring them to Canada.

The family of Afghan military that worked with Canada in the Afghan war and immigrated here were near the top of the list. The Canadian government talked a big game when Afghanistan was making headlines about doing everything they could.

They already showed signs of not doing much and when The Russian invasion of Ukraine started our government knew that bringing white Ukrainians over was the new shiny toy that the world cared about and they basically ghosted all the Afghans and their families. Just ugly stuff.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by jayswin

They also talked a big game in bringing Afghans to Canada earlier this year. My friend worked with the Canadian army in Afghanistan and was eventually offered citizenship here. He has been in dire straights, literally tearing up when taking about his brothers and sisters and aging father back home and the fight to bring them to Canada.

The family of Afghan military that worked with Canada in the Afghan war and immigrated here were near the top of the list. The Canadian government talked a big game when Afghanistan was making headlines about doing everything they could.

They already showed signs of not doing much and when The Russian invasion of Ukraine started our government knew that bringing white Ukrainians over was the new shiny toy that the world cared about and they basically ghosted all the Afghans and their families. Just ugly stuff.

Their strategy and conduct concerning the Afghan's was despicable.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Their strategy and conduct concerning the Afghan's was despicable.

Soul crushing when you know someone who's whole life was clinging on to every update they could get from our government, waiting on promises to be fulfilled, to then learn that they never really had much of a plan or intention to follow through on what they promised when they cashed in on the fact that everyone on social media was calling for them to help Afghans.

They knew it would blow over and they wouldn't have to do what they were boasting about, then the Russian war was the final death knell in helping Afghan citizens in Canada get their families out. New shiny toy and whiter people. It was over for them and it almost brings me to tears hearing him talk about it.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Soul crushing when you know someone who's whole life was clinging on to every update they could get from our government, waiting on promises to be fulfilled, to then learn that they never really had much of a plan or intention to follow through on what they promised when they cashed in on the fact that everyone on social media was calling for them to help Afghans.

They knew it would blow over and they wouldn't have to do what they were boasting about, then the Russian war was the final death knell in helping Afghan citizens in Canada get their families out. New shiny toy and whiter people. It was over for them and it almost brings me to tears hearing him talk about it.

Keep clinging to the pathetic “Whiter” narrative.

https://www.immigration.ca/where-wil...e-from-in-2021

https://www.cimmigrationnews.com/top...anada-in-2021/

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

LOL they can't even decide on new sleeping bags, or pistols, let alone replacing kit with new kit.


The Liberal's promised systematic changes when they were first elected, that went completely by the way side.

You will get systematic changes if Pierre gets in, he was marching and tweeting against the Code of Service Discipline. A military made up of tens of thousands of individuals pursuing their own freedoms and objectives would be fascinating from an operational effectiveness perspective. “Hey, you are a two star? I don’t care, I am a private and I have my freedoms”.

[littlereddevil]

Lots to unpack here on why CF is having trouble bringing in recruits and retaining members (and I wouldn't have the time to explain it all here), but I know a few friends in the reserves who have said that there is definitely a toxic culture pervasive that has existed for decades and is pushing away a lot of people who likely joined with the best of intentions.

Look at the whole fiasco with sexual assault allegations against some of their top generals and lieutenants, and how for years it's been swept under the rug, and then how it has been exacerbated by political interference from our federal governments. Who would want to stay in the CF when there are such systemic barriers to ensuring members of CF are supported, heard and protected?

Military has and always will be corrupt to its core. Just be thankful that we haven't (yet) turned into one of those banana republics where the military is in charge.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Keep clinging to the pathetic “Whiter” narrative.

https://www.immigration.ca/where-wil...e-from-in-2021

https://www.cimmigrationnews.com/top...anada-in-2021/

Refugee cases are separate from general immigration and likely should be looked at separately when considering expediting outside of the regular system due to humanitarian crisis.