Blood Reserve Land Claim returns to court

[Slava]

This is a pretty fascinating case, and the results will be interesting for sure. I didn’t know about this until this article, but the case is returning to court after a couple years hiatus.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...rton-1.4716390

[CaptainYooh]

I remember golfing with a very senior lawyer specializing in aboriginal litigation on behalf of first nations. His views were really cynical in a way that "the feds always pay, one way or another"... It is very unfortunate that so many first nations still view winning a massive lawsuit against the Government of Canada as their only way to prosperity.

[Johnny199r]

What if this is their land and they really are entitled to it? Why shouldnt they get it or comparable compensation?

[GGG]

The interesting question will be how they resolve the population at the time the reserve was awarded. From the article it seems pretty clear that under treaty seven they aren't entitled to thei "big claim"

But the 265 square km between the 1883 survey and what they have will be interested my.

The only thing I would object to is the compensation based on the lands best use as opposed to what their comparable land was used for.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

What if this is their land and they really are entitled to it? Why shouldnt they get it or comparable compensation?

IMO all the legal proceedings involving land settlements play a big part in not letting them move forward as a people.

We all know that many of them are just going for a payout. Is it deserved? Perhaps. Will it help solve many of the issues? No.

[Ducay]

How are reservations still a thing? Terrible setup that guarantees generation after generation of issues, all in the name of "cultural preservation". Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Azure

IMO all the legal proceedings involving land settlements play a big part in not letting them move forward as a people.

We all know that many of them are just going for a payout. Is it deserved? Perhaps. Will it help solve many of the issues? No.

Welcome to the new future. Everyone knows the government will pay in the name of reconciliation. So we will be seeing more lawsuits and more money being given out. Or more land being given away.

But no actual problems will ever be solved.

[ae118]

Originally Posted by Azure

IMO all the legal proceedings involving land settlements play a big part in not letting them move forward as a people.



We all know that many of them are just going for a payout. Is it deserved? Perhaps. Will it help solve many of the issues? No.

If I receive a settlement for wrongful death of a loved one, or similar, does it bring them back? Does it solve the problem? Does it help me move forward in my grief? Am I still rightfully entitled to receive restitution and decide myself what I’ll do with it?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

A loved one that died in 1883?

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

A loved one that died in 1883?

Time heals all wounds?

Or is that only in some cases?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by ae118

If I receive a settlement for wrongful death of a loved one, or similar, does it bring them back? Does it solve the problem? Does it help me move forward in my grief? Am I still rightfully entitled to receive restitution and decide myself what I’ll do with it?

The difference is that the act and the settlement directly affected you in the scenario you paint.

For many of the reconciliation payments, the act and the settlement mean little to the people receiving it beyond 'hey, look a payday.' Therefore they spend it as such.

[ae118]

It did directly affect their entire culture and way of life, and they continue to pay the price. I wasn’t literally referring to a single human life.

I’m not fully on board with strictly financial compensation either, for the record, but I’m afraid there isn’t much of a real solution. For this particular case, they’ve been arguing it since the 1880s, officially since the 1970s, and if there is a contract dispute, which is what this essentially is, it should be dealt with.

[foshizzle11]

How can this keep going, on and on for decades. Will they ever stop if the government says that it will not ever happen? Maybe the surveyors were wrong back in 1880s. If a judge determines they are not entitled to the land, is this over? Why would we continue to pay for this through our taxes for it to just be an ongoing issue? I don't know what is right, but I think it might be too late to claim this land back.

What do you do with the towns that are in there? What about the people who have owned farms and land in that area? You just take their home away from them? What do they get?

I understand preserving the environment, preserving culture. I have driven through a few reserves and preserving the environment doesn't seem like a pressing issue within their own reserves in some instances.

I think they need to start focusing on fixing the issues on their reserves and helping their people. Seems like a lot of time is spent on these sorts of issues instead of what should be important to them or any other culture. Take care of your people first. Money isn't always the answer.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

What do you do with the towns that are in there? What about the people who have owned farms and land in that area? You just take their home away from them? What do they get?

Sounds suspiciously familiar

[GGG]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

How can this keep going, on and on for decades. Will they ever stop if the government says that it will not ever happen? Maybe the surveyors were wrong back in 1880s. If a judge determines they are not entitled to the land, is this over? Why would we continue to pay for this through our taxes for it to just be an ongoing issue? I don't know what is right, but I think it might be too late to claim this land back.

What do you do with the towns that are in there? What about the people who have owned farms and land in that area? You just take their home away from them? What do they get?

I understand preserving the environment, preserving culture. I have driven through a few reserves and preserving the environment doesn't seem like a pressing issue within their own reserves in some instances.

I think they need to start focusing on fixing the issues on their reserves and helping their people. Seems like a lot of time is spent on these sorts of issues instead of what should be important to them or any other culture. Take care of your people first. Money isn't always the answer.

It's usually a settlement of land and cash in lieu of land based on the value of the land today plus its economic value for the past 100 years under the lands "Best use"

The argument in this case is much simpler than the BC cases where there are claims based on traditional grounds. This case is essentially in 1883 the government did a survey based on the population of the reserve and the rules in treaty 7. in I think 1887 they did a second survery based on a later population after starvation and small pox wiped a lot of the population out.

This case will center around which survey met the legal requirements of treaty 7.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by GGG

It's usually a settlement of land and cash in lieu of land based on the value of the land today plus its economic value for the past 100 years under the lands "Best use"

The argument in this case is much simpler than the BC cases where there are claims based on traditional grounds. This case is essentially in 1883 the government did a survey based on the population of the reserve and the rules in treaty 7. in I think 1887 they did a second survery based on a later population after starvation and small pox wiped a lot of the population out.

This case will center around which survey met the legal requirements of treaty 7.

What is the test for "best use"?

Not all land is suitable for "best use". Not all land holders are capable (or even interested in) "best use" utilization.

I've always thought the "best use" of everyone's efforts now is not to focus on righting past wrongs (what's done is done), but establishing a better path forward. Ultimately, I think trying to maintain the existing reserve structure will do nothing but perpetuate existing issues and conditions and a plan for the dissolution of reserves needs to be formulated.

I haven't put a whole lot of thought into this (clearly), but I would propose an equitable division of land among band members. Individuals are free to hold their land, develop their land, sell their land, assemble larger parcels, conduct land-swaps, etc and the individual is entitled to the entire proceeds from whatever they choose to do with their land... An end date for the existing reserve structure is set, say in a "generation" from now, or 30 years, or something, but there's a set date when the current programs end. Each band can democratically choose whether they wait until the end, or start the process of disbursing land now.

Like I said, this isn't exactly a fully formed idea, but I think a move in this direction beats the hell out of the status quo.

[TheIronMaiden]

My take is that if those politicians from Eastern Canada didn't do such a bad job in the first place it would have saved them (tax payers) a lot of money. All the same, the treaties by and large remain much more profitable to Canadians and the government than they do to First Nations.