Backlund vs Ryan

[tvp2003]

Thought this might be a good discussion point. In the Toffoli thread there is the the thought that if we can acquire a top six RW, we can put that player with Monahan and Gaudreau and “push Backlund down to 3C”. But would Backlund really be our third best center right now?

This year he has 6G and 15A for 21 points. He’s played the majority of the season on a line with Tkachuk or Gaudreau. He’s no longer in our top two PK rotation.

Meanwhile, Ryan has 9G and 16A for 26 points in the same amount of games. He’s been paired with Lucic for a big chunk of the season. Plays PK minutes.

Last year it was comical how Hathaway-Ryan-Mangiapane would be called our 4th line even though they were miles ahead of Bennett-Jankowski-Neal, especially down the stretch. That’s not to say any of these labels mean anything once the puck is dropped, but if Backlund goes back to C, do you play him with someone like Dube or Mangiapane? Or let him start with the Rieders and Rinaldos of the world (ie along with Bennett)?

Backlund is obviously having an off year (at least offensively) — his shooting percentage is only 6.2 which is well off his usually performance (pretty consistently between 9 and 11). Hopefully the puck starts going in for him.

Meanwhile, I think most fans are very happy with Ryan right now, and deservedly so. Barring a trade, maybe you swap Dube with Backlund for a few games? Ryan seems to have a knack for making players around him better...

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Thought this might be a good discussion point. In the Toffoli thread there is the the thought that if we can acquire a top six RW, we can put that player with Monahan and Gaudreau and “push Backlund down to 3C”. But would Backlund really be our third best center right now?

This year he has 6G and 15A for 21 points. He’s played the majority of the season on a line with Tkachuk or Gaudreau. He’s no longer in our top two PK rotation.

Meanwhile, Ryan has 9G and 16A for 26 points in the same amount of games. He’s been paired with Lucic for a big chunk of the season. Plays PK minutes.

Last year it was comical how Hathaway-Ryan-Mangiapane would be called our 4th line even though they were miles ahead of Bennett-Jankowski-Neal, especially down the stretch. That’s not to say any of these labels mean anything once the puck is dropped, but if Backlund goes back to C, do you play him with someone like Dube or Mangiapane? Or let him start with the Rieders and Rinaldos of the world (ie along with Bennett)?

Backlund is obviously having an off year (at least offensively) — his shooting percentage is only 6.2 which is well off his usually performance (pretty consistently between 9 and 11). Hopefully the puck starts going in for him.

Meanwhile, I think most fans are very happy with Ryan right now, and deservedly so. Barring a trade, maybe you swap Dube with Backlund for a few games? Ryan seems to have a knack for making players around him better...

I would love to see ryan with Monahan-gaudreau for a game, but the pairing of backlund-Ryan with ryan mostly playing centre but the two sharing duties would be excellent imo. Put dube on the other wing and I think it would go really well.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I would love to see ryan with Monahan-gaudreau for a game, but the pairing of backlund-Ryan with ryan mostly playing centre but the two sharing duties would be excellent imo. Put dube on the other wing and I think it would go really well.

Who replaces Backlund?

[Nelson]

I have wanted Lindholm, Monahan, Backlund, and Ryan at centre since before they moved Lindholm to centre.

With Backlund as the 3C and Ryan as the 4C (to answer your actual question), my ideal lines would be:

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Gaudreau - Monahan - Toffoli
Bennett - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Reider
Extra: Rinaldo

I haven't listed Jankowski because I'm hoping he gets traded with a draft pick (2nd/3rd) for Toffoli, and we're talking about my ideal scenario. In reality, I think when the LA Kings say they want a prospect and a 2nd for Toffoli, they mean they want a prospect and a 2nd for Toffoli, and Jankowski will not be interesting to them. That team is going in for a major rebuild.

[FanIn80]

I took a lot of flack for my thread in the off season about this very topic, but I still stand behind my premise: Backlund is our most tradable asset. I said before that Ryan is a better (and cheaper) version of Backlund’s role on this roster, and this season has proven it.

I like Backlund a lot, but we need to convert his contract into a top-six RW.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Last year it was comical how Hathaway-Ryan-Mangiapane would be called our 4th line even though they were miles ahead of Bennett-Jankowski-Neal, especially down the stretch.

I've wondered this for a while, if it was just the Flames way of trying to justify signing that useless turd Neal to a giant contract. Couldn't put him on the top 2 lines because you'd be better off just playing short-handed. So let's at least give him the "3rd line" title.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I took a lot of flack for my thread in the off season about this very topic, but I still stand behind my premise: Backlund is our most tradable asset. I said before that Ryan is a better (and cheaper) version of Backlund’s role on this roster, and this season has proven it.

I like Backlund a lot, but we need to convert his contract into a top-six RW.

He has a no trade clause. Extremely unlikely to waive. If he did, he would pick very few destinations. No leverage. Not a readable asset.


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[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

He has a no trade clause. Extremely unlikely to waive. If he did, he would pick very few destinations. No leverage. Not a readable asset.


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If he is going to waive i couldnt see him doing in season. Maybe off season.

[GioforPM]

I dunno. Part of Ryan’s success may just be that he’s been slotted correctly.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I dunno. Part of Ryan’s success may just be that he’s been slotted correctly.

Maybe, but whats the harm in trying? It's not llike Backlund is lighting the world on fire on the 2nd line wing spot. We all know Backlund would not be out of his ellement if he goes to 3rd line center. If anything thats where he really should be.

[keenan87]

I would easily trade Backlund and replace him with Ryan.

Don't want to pay over 5 mil to a third line center who is a "defensive specialist" but continues to get embarassed in the playoffs whenever he plays against top players.

[Roof-Daddy]

If Lindholm continues to be a strong option for #1A/B center, dealing Backlund in the off season is a pretty good idea IMO. Especially with Ryan having another season left under contract. If both Hamonic and Brodie walk, maybe Backlund can be dealt for a top 4 D man in a hockey trade.

[GranteedEV]

Personally, I'm not convinced Ryan's performance is sustainable. There were aspects of it last year that were, especially when Mangiapane started clicking, but since then he's kind of just had a midas touch.

2019/20 Under Peters

Backlund (2C) - 51.51% CF, 47.86% xGF, 42.96% GF
Ryan - 50.01% CF, 50.94% xGF, 59.12% GF
Lindholm (1RW) - 50.41% CF, 47.46% xGF, 39.36% GF
Monahan - 49.25% CF, 45.69% xGF, 33.43% GF

2019/20 Under Ward

Ryan - 45.48% CF, 47.59% xGF, 58.12% GF
Backlund (2RW) - 46.22% CF, 46.11% xGF, 56.77% GF
Lindholm (1C) - 50.82% CF, 50.43% xGF, 50.32% GF
Monahan - 49.58%CF, 47.99% xGF, 56.33% GF


Even under Peters he was riding a bit of a puck luck bump while the top 6 were slumping in terms of puck luck.

But under Ward, Ryan's been getting essentially caved in. And so has Backlund the "winger" (which is clearly struggles to play, as his entire skillset is built around making nifty moves through the middle of the ice for zone exits and entries).

I'm not saying I want to see a return to the old lines - they were clearly tired - but I think there's a lot of foolsgold in our play currently and I think the optimal 1-2-3 punch is probably not the present one. Ryan's probably been given too much defensive responsibility without Backlund to soak it up, and Backlund's entire skillset is being misutilized on the wing.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Count me in as thinking that Backlund is still by far the Flames' best 'shut-down centre', and I really feel he is being misused as a winger right now.


You can't argue with the results that Calgary has had in wins/losses, but Backlund has been one of the NHL's elite defensive centres. Not just 'good', but rather elite at his job. So why change his job? We have also heard how important it is to have depth at centre, and how centres help a team to control the game, and how much more important a centre is over a winger.


Monahan-Lindholm is unquestionably a solid 1-2 punch capable of generating offence regularly. Backlund and Ryan as a 1-2 punch are unquestionably great in their own zones and you don't really have to worry so much about the opposing team's top lines, while still generating depth scoring. Sure, Backlund is having a bit of a down year offensively, but that's what he has always done, and I would expect him to snap out of it while playing centre.


I also think that this will free-up Jankowski and get him thinking offence more. This is a very down year for him given his two previous years, and given the centre depth, he should be pushed to the wing on any of the lines (and rotated just like everyone else) until there is a fit.



I was hoping that Ward does this before any trades take place. Backlund has a fairly good track record of getting his wingers to produce (Bouma, Colborne, Bennett and definitely some synergy with Tkachuk, not to mention Frolik as well).



Now that Monahan is playing a much more effective game defensively, I really believe it makes the Flames so much more difficult to play against and match-up against, and they will never really be worried about being caught on a bad line change.


Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Tkachuk- Lindholm -Mangiapane
Jankowski - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Rieder/Rinaldo


Move the wingers - including Mangiapane - around until there are fits. I really like Mangiapane's game, but he is not producing. Maybe just keep the pairings (though up in the air who the pairing would be with Backlund - maybe Bennett?) until there are solid lines emerging.


I just feel that Backlund is being a rather large wasted asset, and I think that is part of the reason why the Flames underlying numbers haven't been as strong and correlating with the actual win/loss record.


Another benefit to this is that you can divide the ice-time 5v5 rather evenly - really rolling 4 lines - and this will make the team much more fresh for the playoffs.

[SeanCharles]

Put Backs back to C after adding two new forwards, then everyone will be slotted properly:


Tkachuk-Lindholm-
Gaudreau-Monahan-
Bennett-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Ryan-Dube

Backlund and Mangiapane are not top 6 players.

Mangiapane and Dube might get there but they aren’t there yet.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Tkachuk- Lindholm -Mangiapane
Jankowski - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Rieder/Rinaldo

.

Please stop with this

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

Please stop with this

Nope. How about you read my post before commenting on it? I specifically said that I want the Flames to cycle through wingers until something works. Besides, who the heck is working on the top line that the notion of trying Bennet on it seems to trigger you? Anyway, it is 100% fine if you don't want to read through my entire post if it is too long and you don't have time for it, but you why waste the time to comment on it is beyond me.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I think Ryan should be given more ice time than Backlund... Or at least have Backlund playing 3C and Ryan swapping FO's with Lindholm or Monahan.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Ryan/Mangiapane/Dube
Gaudreau - Monahan - Mangiapane/Dube/Ryan
Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane/Dube
Bennett - Jankowski - Rieder

Kind of surprised that we have not started Dube with Gaudreau and Monahan or Lindholm and Tkachuk. I think given the ice time he could thrive.

As you can see with my post, we desperately need a top 6 RW in this group. We have lacked a good one since the departure of #12.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Nope. How about you read my post before commenting on it? I specifically said that I want the Flames to cycle through wingers until something works. Besides, who the heck is working on the top line that the notion of trying Bennet on it seems to trigger you? Anyway, it is 100% fine if you don't want to read through my entire post if it is too long and you don't have time for it, but you why waste the time to comment on it is beyond me.

Enough with the give Bennett a chance song and dance. Hes been given every chance hes ever earned or deserved.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

Enough with the give Bennett a chance song and dance. Hes been given every chance hes ever earned or deserved.

Not as much as anyone else who has been tried there with even poorer results