[News] Kassian to have hearing with NHL **Assessed a two-game suspension**

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This is the stuff that's a reach to me.

The NHL in a detailed ruling called it a clean hit. Guys like Bob McKenzie and Chris Johnson, and Ken Campbell have come out calling it clean.

Two ex Canucks that played the game the same way aren't much of a source. Either are a bunch of ex players with ties to Edmonton.

This is a gray area thing, but this need to say "the rest of the world agrees with me" stuff has to stop. It's silly. Edmonton media have been combing the hockey world looking for quotes. Maybe, just maybe if Calgary media was equally obsessed with the issue they'd be asking questions and only publishing the quotes that match their narrative.

I see both sides of this ... but the everyone agrees with us when a player got horse collared from behind on hits that the league deemed as clean is insane.

Just a point of clarification. Legal =/= clean in the minds of a lot of players, media, and fans which is why there is a lot of people on Kassians side.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Just a point of clarification. Legal =/= clean in the minds of a lot of players, media, and fans which is why there is a lot of people on Kassians side.

The league had no problem with the hit. There are lots of people on Kassian's side because they tend to try to split the atom with that argument. At the end of the day, there was no suspension and not penalties for the hit and the league was pretty clear on that. So once again we have a neanderthal idiot jumping someone for legal or clean hit, not because the hit was dirty, but because his pride was hurt and he was selfish.


And the problem is that the media decided to whip up a story to sell clicks by appealing to one of the most brain dead and entitled fan bases in the NHL and they swallowed it up like something something.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Just a point of clarification. Legal =/= clean in the minds of a lot of players, media, and fans which is why there is a lot of people on Kassians side.

Out of the plays that occurred, in terms of dirtiness:

a. Horsecollar to the ice from behind.
b. Punching a guy to the back of his head when he's on the ice.
c. Crosscheck to the back.
d. Aggressive but legal check to a guy with his head down.

[metroneck]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Out of the plays that occurred, in terms of dirtiness:

a. Horsecollar to the ice from behind.
b. Punching a guy to the back of his head when he's on the ice.
c. Crosscheck to the back.
d. Aggressive but legal check to a guy with his head down.

How many players would turn down the ‘D’ opportunity vs your main rivalry, and a player that you have a bit of a history with?

Those Guardians of the Game who are railing against Tkachuk are full of crap.

[stang]

Originally Posted by 868904

It's funny how early this season the whole hockey world had its "awakening" to hockey culture and bullying, yet it's all forgotten in an instant with this whole soap opera....

I get your post and understand where you’re coming from. However the majority of the Hockey world sees Tkachuk doing his slewfoots, or elbowing doughty, or sticking a player from his bench, or hitting a player off the ice, or trying to fight a player already fighting someone, and all the other stuff he does, and sees him as the bully. Then they cheer for the guy who fights back against the bully. So it’s not all forgotten, you’re just not seeing it in the same view as what the majority of the hockey world is seeing it as.

Edit: You comparing Tkachuk to the kid in school who gets straight A’s just proves this point.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Just a point of clarification. Legal =/= clean in the minds of a lot of players, media, and fans which is why there is a lot of people on Kassians side.

And I get that.

They were certainly predatory, but then so was Kassian jumping Tkachuk last year, and certainly his assault this year.

I'd even be open to a rule change. But the biggest issue in those hits was a player not protecting himself at all. Seems to get lost in the shuffle on this one, but a guy with a head up puts a cross check into Tkachuk skating backwards and there's nothing to see.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by stang

I get your post and understand where you’re coming from. However the majority of the Hockey world sees Tkachuk doing his slewfoots, or elbowing doughty, or sticking a player from his bench, or hitting a player off the ice, or trying to fight a player already fighting someone, and all the other stuff he does, and sees him as the bully. Then they cheer for the guy who fights back against the bully. So it’s not all forgotten, you’re just not seeing it in the same view as what the majority of the hockey world is seeing it as.

Edit: You comparing Tkachuk to the kid in school who gets straight A’s just proves this point.

You, and others, keep stating this as though it's a fact. You need to stop this. It's your opinion that the majority feels this way, it is certainly not a fact at all.

[stang]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

You, and others, keep stating this as though it's a fact. You need to stop this. It's your opinion that the majority feels this way, it is certainly not a fact at all.

I was replying to the post that said the same thing

[Major Major]

Of course the "hockey world" is largely against Tkachuk. As some of you are quick to point out, he is already largely hated. So it is no surprise that this bias creeps into the arguments being put forth by different players. I've got no problem with that. I don't find Tkachuk particularly dishonorable, but this is my own bias at work. That's just what happens when the passion of fans and players reaches emotional intensity, logic slips away.

But my curiosity lies in this whole dirty but legal bit argument. The last time it popped up, in my memory, is with head shots. It rightly precipitated the only body checking rule change in the modern NHL.

So my question is, what other hits do people remember that got this label? What examples are there?

Is it the preference of the "hockey world" to make a rule change her? Or just let the "code" take care of these types of hits.

My opinion is the hits are within the rules and therefore are fine. I believe that if you want to take some hits out that we deem to be dirty, they need to be defined and then made illegal by the rule book. But this is by far not my preference.

But if you were to make The Tkachuk hits illegal, what would the rule be? I've heard many people complain about the hits for about 6 different reasons, but no one reason really sticks. Head as the secondary point of head contact, hitting a player that is reaching for a puck, hitting a player near the boards, a winger hitting a player below the goal line, a player hitting a player who is already being defended, taking 4 strides to make a hit.

Measures could be put in place to make any one of those illegal. But no one seems to be asking for that.

If you make these illegal, the code could still exist. In fact, it would make way more sense as players would need to answer for illegal hits.

I think the code makes no sense and cannot be explained coherently if part of its function is to get retribution for legal hits. And that's why no one has really made a sensible argument for kassian's actions. They just say, "if you've played hockey, you would know." And of course the media and fans graft onto that as if it makes sense, but no one is saying, "if you'd played hockey, you would know, and here's why..." They're just treating it like a mic drop moment. It doesn't work the way they're intending, since all they are saying in my eyes is "ya, we hate that guy, glad he took a beating"

So, tkachuk haters, can you think of examples of other legal dirty hits? Do you want a rule change or are you ok with an incoherent code?

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Just a point of clarification. Legal =/= clean in the minds of a lot of players, media, and fans which is why there is a lot of people on Kassians side.

What about sucker punching a dude from behind repeatedly without giving him a chance to square up, and then claiming they needed to "answer the bell"?

How do you explain away that level of cowardice and lack of self awareness?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

What about sucker punching a dude from behind repeatedly without giving him a chance to square up, and then claiming they needed to "answer the bell"?

How do you explain away that level of cowardice and lack of self awareness?

This. There are tons of examples of players pursuing an opponent and getting them to turn and face them, then a fight starts. Kassian didn't have the guts to do that, he attacked from behind right away. Hell, even Bertuzzi and McSorely were trying to do start a face to face fight before they lost their sh*t.

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

This. There are tons of examples of players pursuing an opponent and getting them to turn and face them, then a fight starts. Kassian didn't have the guts to do that, he attacked from behind right away. Hell, even Bertuzzi and McSorely were trying to do start a face to face fight before they lost their sh*t.

And all after McMinus rammed Chucky cowardly from behind.

[CaptainCrunch]

I guess by Oiler's logic, Matthew should grab McDavid from behind, throw him to the ice and punch his watermelon head in and it would be fine.

[868904]

Originally Posted by stang

I get your post and understand where you’re coming from. However the majority of the Hockey world sees Tkachuk doing his slewfoots, or elbowing doughty, or sticking a player from his bench, or hitting a player off the ice, or trying to fight a player already fighting someone, and all the other stuff he does, and sees him as the bully. Then they cheer for the guy who fights back against the bully. So it’s not all forgotten, you’re just not seeing it in the same view as what the majority of the hockey world is seeing it as.

Edit: You comparing Tkachuk to the kid in school who gets straight A’s just proves this point.

What Tkachuk does is not bullying, it's annoying. He's that snot nosed brat in school who irritates people with his "greater than thou and smarter than you" attitude and perfect A's but he's not beating them up or creating a mob to bully him into a fight. Yes he's irritating and he's doing something designed to get you off your game, but he's not beating someone down and then threatening them constantly.

I don't think you understand what bullying is. What Kassian, Bieksa and Kesler are doing on their podcast is classic bullying. Talking about a guy and calling him out for not fighting. This is all school yard bullying crap and it's not surprising coming from these 3 children.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Message to Lucic, smoke McDavid or Draisaitl and say "OK" you got me I'll fight if I have too

Lucic got smoked very recently, I think it was in Montreal. It was a bigger hit than the Tkachuk on Kassian hits. He took the hit like a man and there was no redemption.

And even when Lucic got hit hard by Macdermid earlier in the season, he didn't just jump him, he let him square up.

As for the Zadorov incident, that was in retaliation for a truly dangerous hit on Czarnik who ended up missing games as a result of it.

Kassian has always been a loose cannon and a bully.

[868904]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I hate to burst your bubble on the Iginla stance.

He had some degree of honour, not fighting out of his weight class. But he was also an instigator.

Listen to Connie’s stories. Iggy would be on the bench and decide he was going to fight someone. Just because.

Just saying

Yeah but like I said in my post, it was for getting the team going, it wasn't about trying to prove he was the toughest guy. I know exactly the interview you are talking about and Connie said Iggy would do that to change momentum.

Bieksa in particular fights to prove he's the toughest.

[stang]

Originally Posted by 868904

What Tkachuk does is not bullying, it's annoying. He's that snot nosed brat in school who irritates people with his "greater than thou and smarter than you" attitude and perfect A's but he's not beating them up or creating a mob to bully him into a fight. Yes he's irritating and he's doing something designed to get you off your game, but he's not beating someone down and then threatening them constantly.

I don't think you understand what bullying is. What Kassian, Bieksa and Kesler are doing on their podcast is classic bullying. Talking about a guy and calling him out for not fighting. This is all school yard bullying crap and it's not surprising coming from these 3 children.

Ok I was replying to why the “hockey world” (in your words) is flipping on this. People like seeing jerks get what’s coming to them.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by 868904

Lucic got smoked very recently, I think it was in Montreal. It was a bigger hit than the Tkachuk on Kassian hits. He took the hit like a man and there was no redemption.

And even when Lucic got hit hard by Macdermid earlier in the season, he didn't just jump him, he let him square up.

As for the Zadorov incident, that was in retaliation for a truly dangerous hit on Czarnik who ended up missing games as a result of it.

Kassian has always been a loose cannon and a bully.

Even in the Zadorov incident he engages him by the end boards and Zadorov turns around so his back is facing Lucic. Lucic grabbed him and turns him around so they are face to face. Zadorov had plenty of opportunity to defend himself.

The Kassian incident is him tracking a player down from behind and engaging before the player has any opportunity to defend themselves. That is why Kassian was suspended. You can see the "code" in effect when looking at the two incidents.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by stang

I get your post and understand where you’re coming from. However the majority of the Hockey world sees Tkachuk doing his slewfoots, .............

I like this line of thinking actually. This means Draisaitl should get his ass kicked for slewfooting Tkachuk last year. Or his elbow on Krug.

When's this tussle going to happen?

Draisaitl is no stranger to dangerous hits here either. How come he doesn't fight? I mean, according to the "code" he should have at least 2 beatings to his name.....why has he never dropped the gloves? Or does the "code" not apply for some reason?

Maybe because your whole argument is ridiculous?

Tkachuk's hits on Kassian are CLEAN. Why is it so hard for people to understand this? Why should he have to fight for clean hits? Is this the new norm? Or should we all accept that fighting is being phased out of the game, and if you want retribution and a bunch of mindless idiots running their mouths on TV go watch UFC.

[Robbob]

McDavid also needs to step up for his elbow on Leddy that he got two games for. Is this really what Oiler fans want?