Calgary Flames All Time Roster - #6 Defenseman

[looooob]

I dunno I hope I'm not the only guy to think its ok to have different answers to the following 2 questions
Jay Bouwmeester or TJ Brodie


who had the better NHL career? (JB easily)
who had the better Flames career ? (TJB...maybe easily?)


stats as a Flames


Brodie 634 games, 266 pts (.42 PPG), + 14. 11 points in 20 playoff games
Jay Bouw 279 games 97 points .348 PPG, -38. zero playoff games


?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Brad McCrimmon seems to be getting the right place, right time vote for his 3 years in Calgary

Disappointing, Brodie deserves better IMO

[SeanCharles]

As much as I like Brodie I think he should be below Phaneuf at the very least.

Phaneuf’s tenure as a Flame is pretty impressive.

We moved him at the right time, although not for the right price, but the point still stands.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Haplo

Brodie was in serious consideration for the 2016 World Cup team so I think it's a stretch to say that "he hasn't distinguished himself as great in any way." He was a beast for a couple of seasons around that time.

So, his top season made him something like the tenth best Canadian defenseman. That makes him at best a top 20 guy in the NHL. That isn't greatness.

The Hockey News named 11 possible defensemen for Canada's 2016 World Cup Team and Brodie wasn't among them. https://thehockeynews.com/news/artic...canadas-roster

Sportsnet mentions Brodie among the ten and then ranks 8 of them ahead of him making Brodie at best, #9. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...the-world-cup/

[codynw]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Jaybo has two votes! A guy selected by team Canada for the greatest D ever assembled at the Olympics and selected again for the world cup (not only selected but played big minutes) People are pumping Brodie's tires for being considered!

Jay Feaster you Moron!

This is a vote for the 6th best Flames defenceman. Bouwmeester may have had a pretty good career overall, but he sucked in Calgary. Brodie, Phaneuf, McCrimmon, Housley and Macoun all deserve to be on this all time Flames team over Bouwmeester.

[David Struch]

I'll take the HOF'er in Phil Housley,

Will TJ ever be in the Hall... I highly doubt it.

[dammage79]

#6 Connor Mackey??

I'll just show myself out.

[FireGilbert]

Really tough call. Could make an argument for any of Brodie, Macoun, Housley, Phaneuf, or McCrimmon.

I’m going with Phaneuf. He beats out McCrimmon having a longer period of being elite while beating out the more tenured dmen through his unmatched personal achievements.

Think I’ll go Brodie for 7th but could change my mind tomorrow.

[FireGilbert]

Just saw the votes. I guess the McCrimmon fans have done a good job convincing others. Not sure how his 83 points and a 2nd team all star beats Phaneuf’s 238 points, a first team all star, and a Norris nominee. Is it because of McCrimmon’s plus minus and cup win because those are more team accomplishments than individual.

[Strange Brew]

^McCrimmon not a points guy so that’s not a great comparison.

But the Phaneuf argument is a good one. I’d forgotten just how good he was out of the chutes.

McCrimmon’s three years does really bother me. I voted for him but can’t really deny it’s tied entirely to that Cup run.

[transplant99]

I dont even have TJ as a lock in the top 10 of all time Flames Dmen...which is how im measuring this whole exercise.

I realize im on a an island that way, and the guy is a good dman but in no way one of the all time greats on this club.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I dont even have TJ as a lock in the top 10 of all time Flames Dmen...which is how im measuring this whole exercise.

I realize im on a an island that way, and the guy is a good dman but in no way one of the all time greats on this club.

Who, then, are “all time greats” on this club?

Brad McCrimmon is not an “all time great” by any means and he is basically going to be chosen #6

I liked guys like Macoun, Warrener, and Sarich. None were particularly flashy but these are solid guys who know how to win. Nobody would call them all time great though. Phaneuf could only turn one way, Bouw was a cream puff in the net and in the running for the green jacket, Lousy dropped off from his Buffalo / Winnipeg offensive levels, in his first of two short stints.

But yeah, I don’t see where the all time greats are hiding

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Who, then, are “all time greats” on this club?

Brad McCrimmon is not an “all time great” by any means and he is basically going to be chosen #6

I liked guys like Macoun, Warrener, and Sarich. None were particularly flashy but these are solid guys who know how to win. Nobody would call them all time great though. Phaneuf could only turn one way, Bouw was a cream puff in the net and in the running for the green jacket, Lousy dropped off from his Buffalo / Winnipeg offensive levels, in his first of two short stints.

But yeah, I don’t see where the all time greats are hiding

Yeah...he really is. Heads and shoulders better than Brodie ever has been.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Just saw the votes. I guess the McCrimmon fans have done a good job convincing others. Not sure how his 83 points and a 2nd team all star beats Phaneuf’s 238 points, a first team all star, and a Norris nominee. Is it because of McCrimmon’s plus minus and cup win because those are more team accomplishments than individual.

You had to have seem him play to appreciate what he did for the Flames.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah...he really is. Heads and shoulders better than Brodie ever has been.

Oh, I guess you are right.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Who, then, are “all time greats” on this club?

Brad McCrimmon is not an “all time great” by any means and he is basically going to be chosen #6

g

Well his tenure was short that’s true but he was pretty damn good -
Recognized as one of the top 6 d in the league two years running

I think he is an underrated player- as defensive d often are- and yes I know plus minus has its limits and is viewed as a ‘team stat’ but McCrimmon played on several teams and is 10th in nhl history in career plus minus- all of the top 21 save him are HOFers and most of the top 10 are inner circle HOFers

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Oh, I guess you are right.

Yes I am...and there is absolutely no argument to be made otherwise in reality. Unless we are going strictly by tenure in which case there is no need to even have a discussion as that is in the record books.

You clearly have no idea how good BM was....he was a stud at a time when the NHL was full of them. No he wasn't an offensive guy, but he was among the best defensive players at his position in the history of the game.

Nine players, EVER, have had a better +/- than he did...all of them are in the hall of fame. That's extremely heady stuff even if the stat can be flawed at times.

TJ has been a good, (and at times great), dman on a mostly mediocre team for 8 years. He has entirely outperformed his draft position, which is unusual for this franchise of late. Lots of good things about him...but that does not mean in the 40 year history of this club he is one of the best to play his position. He isn't.

[looooob]

Ok let’s get back to agreeing with one another
Brad McCrimmon > Kevin Lowe

[David Struch]

I think I'd definitely take Phil Housley or Brad McCrimmon (+ Rob Ramage) over TJ, maybe I'd even consider Jamie Macoun & Ric Nattress.

Brodie is on par with the likes of Derek Morris, Dion Phaneuf, Jay Bouwmeester and Dougie Hamilton.

I really don't see him as much more than a Jordan Leopold.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yes I am...and there is absolutely no argument to be made otherwise in reality. Unless we are going strictly by tenure in which case there is no need to even have a discussion as that is in the record books.

You clearly have no idea how good BM was....he was a stud at a time when the NHL was full of them. No he wasn't an offensive guy, but he was among the best defensive players at his position in the history of the game.

Nine players, EVER, have had a better +/- than he did...all of them are in the hall of fame. That's extremely heady stuff even if the stat can be flawed at times.

TJ has been a good, (and at times great), dman on a mostly mediocre team for 8 years. He has entirely outperformed his draft position, which is unusual for this franchise of late. Lots of good things about him...but that does not mean in the 40 year history of this club he is one of the best to play his position. He isn't.

I appreciate the detail. I never really watched him in Boston and Philly, that was a bit early for me, and admire his accomplishments over his career. I will take Mark Howe’s word for how much he liked playing with him. I guess I was remembering him more over the back 9 of his career, without looking back further. Thanks