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Old 11-09-2018, 09:58 PM   #41
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He made significant coin at McKinsey prior to being mayor and has a Harvard degree. Unlike many of our politicians, Nenshi had a successful career prior to politics and could very easily go back to making $300K+ in the private sector.
That's great, but it's just your prediction against mine. I think he stays in the public sector. His stint at McKinsey was one thing among various roles involved with public service and non-profit management.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:03 PM   #42
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That's great, but it's just your prediction against mine. I think he stays in the public sector. His stint at McKinsey was one thing among various roles involved with public service and non-profit management.
I’m not making a prediction. I was responding to your post saying “doubt it” in regards to his earning potential in the private sector.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:04 PM   #43
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I’m not making a prediction. I was responding to your post saying “doubt it” in regards to his earning potential in the private sector.
The context was where he goes next, not how much he can make. I don't dispute he can make lots in the private sector. I just don't think he's motivated like that.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:54 PM   #44
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Please elaborate , I have and this city is a bargain. It seems like a bargain because we are the only major city that makes businesses pay over 55% of the property taxes.

But I digress... please spew more oversimplifications of your expertise on city building. If... based on your example, Nenshi was the reason why Calgarians have the new library they have Calgarians had the opportunity to move on last year.

They didn’t.

Get ready for the impending doom of the downtown property tax vacancy and the impact it will have on your property taxes as well.

But I’m sure your mandate of risk nothing and spend less will solve the problem.

I’m sure you’re also against the green bin, because the double standard of reducing waste to extend landfill lifecycle and minimize the cost of municipal services seems right in your wheelhouse and.... just outside of potentially comprehending one morsel of the complexity inherent in municipal affairs. The cost of the bins has raised your/mine/our Enmax bill by $22.50 per month and INCREASED PROPERTY TAXES BY AN AVERAGE OF $112.00 PER YEAR FOR LESS SERVICES. THEY ARE NOW DROPPING THE RATE OF PICK UP BUT NOT DECREASING THE HOMEOWNER COST OF THE BILL

But I don’t care about any of that because this discussion is about the arena. The city's objective with an entertainment centre/district is to create a carrying capacity of density that will offset some of the looming infrastructure deficit awaiting Calgary's sprawl. Council can see the lifecycle assessment of tangibke capital assets like existing pipe, road, and wire and see that the renewal costs aren’t pretty.

The arena will go ahead because it is central to creating revenue to pay for this sprawl repair/renewal. Is it thee answer, no. It is one of the solutions/opportunities... yes.
The mayor and his select group of tax and spend left leaning group do not look for ways to save money, they steal over $50Million of the provincial tax refund, don't tell us what they are using it for, AND raise our taxes. We all know it costs to run the city and have no issue paying our taxes for needed services but i have an issue when the smug bastard tells us he knows better.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:24 PM   #45
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The mayor and his select group of tax and spend left leaning group do not look for ways to save money, they steal over $50Million of the provincial tax refund, don't tell us what they are using it for, AND raise our taxes. We all know it costs to run the city and have no issue paying our taxes for needed services but i have an issue when the smug bastard tells us he knows better.

The other problem with "nobles_point's" argument - is that he's saying, just because a far left, eastern Canadian city, votes in favour of sky high taxes - we should completely disregard what Calgarians think and copy those far left eastern Canadian cities. Each city is supposed to vote how they see fit.

So you can't justify massive nenshi-era property tax increases - simply by comparing them to other cities, who have much different political beliefs than conservative cities in Alberta. This is just a way to tell Calgarians to be quiet, shut them down, and tell them to obey gov - when it should be the other way around.

nenshi's used this cop out every single year after he raised taxes significantly. The correct benchmark's how he's performing relative to his predecessor - Bronconnier. nenshi's average property tax increase was $112/year vs. $44/year for Bronconnier.

It's probably because of these games that nenshi plays, which is why the Flames don't want to talk to him.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:26 PM   #46
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Well I’m convinced, it’s written in bold... BOLD!
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:39 PM   #47
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Keep in mind Bill Smith had about 110,000 votes - and by extension you could conclude that a large part of Calgary wants the city to pay for the arena.
Bill Smith (publicly at least) didn't have a meaningfully different opinion then Nenshi on arena funding. They basically agreed.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:40 PM   #48
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So if I am following this right Nenshi is terrible because he raised our taxes so we want to vote him out to bring some one in to raise taxes to fund an arena with taxpayer dollars.

The ridiculous of the above aside I think the city and the flames missed an opportunity to have the feds pay for the new arena. The current Olympic bid only has 1.4 billion of 1.75 billion of matching funds in the budget. The flames were willing to commit $275 million to an arena. So the city should contribute an additional 275 million to the Olympic bid for a city owned arena that would be leased by the flames to pay back the 275 million. The terms would be similar to the Saddledome where flames do repairs but there is no property tax. Then the city gets 275 million from the feds in matching funds so you have 550 for the Arena. Then you also free up about 150 million from the Olympic bid for the community arena.

That this didn’t happen last Tuesday means everyone involved with this process isn’t doing their jobs announcing an Arena contingent on the Olympics that the city didn’t have to pay for would have guaranteed plebiscite victory. I can’t believe they missed the boat on free money
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:49 PM   #49
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The flames were willing to commit $275 million to an arena. So the city should contribute an additional 275 million to the Olympic bid for a city owned arena that would be leased by the flames to pay back the 275 million.


The Flames refused to agree to pay any rent (or property tax). They literally want a lease agreement where they pay sweet #### all.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:06 AM   #50
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So if I am following this right Nenshi is terrible because he raised our taxes so we want to vote him out to bring some one in to raise taxes to fund an arena with taxpayer dollars.

The ridiculous of the above aside I think the city and the flames missed an opportunity to have the feds pay for the new arena. The current Olympic bid only has 1.4 billion of 1.75 billion of matching funds in the budget. The flames were willing to commit $275 million to an arena. So the city should contribute an additional 275 million to the Olympic bid for a city owned arena that would be leased by the flames to pay back the 275 million. The terms would be similar to the Saddledome where flames do repairs but there is no property tax. Then the city gets 275 million from the feds in matching funds so you have 550 for the Arena. Then you also free up about 150 million from the Olympic bid for the community arena.

That this didn’t happen last Tuesday means everyone involved with this process isn’t doing their jobs announcing an Arena contingent on the Olympics that the city didn’t have to pay for would have guaranteed plebiscite victory. I can’t believe they missed the boat on free money

my position is that at least the arena would tie his hands and prevent him from spending it on one of his many foolish "personal legacy/vision" capital projects. nenshi's already the mayor who's annual tax increases were $112/year vs. $44 by the last mayor. what do we get in Calgary for nenshi's high taxes? ideological capital projects that don't solve Calgarians' problems - so while we're at it, heck why don't we just build a freaking arena. The way the Flames are currently dealing with nenshi is perfect.

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Old 11-10-2018, 12:39 AM   #51
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my position is that at least the arena would tie his hands and prevent him from spending it on one of his many foolish "personal legacy/vision" capital projects. nenshi's already the mayor who's annual tax increases were $112/year vs. $44 by the last mayor. what do we get in Calgary for nenshi's high taxes? ideological capital projects that don't solve Calgarians' problems - so while we're at it, heck why don't we just build a freaking arena. The way the Flames are currently dealing with nenshi is perfect.
I need just one foolish”personal legacy/ vision” capital project.

So the city grew from a few hundred thousand to well over a million since the last Mayor and then Nenshi..what was he supposed to do? taxes should have stayed the same? Who pays for the infastructre? Look how hard it was to get a goddamn runway.

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Old 11-10-2018, 02:12 AM   #52
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I need just one foolish”personal legacy/ vision” capital project.

So the city grew from a few hundred thousand to well over a million since the last Mayor and then Nenshi..what was he supposed to do? taxes should have stayed the same? Who pays for the infastructre? Look how hard it was to get a goddamn runway.
Calgary was not a city of a few hundred thousand under Bronconnier, the population was over 1 million at the end of his final term. With an increased tax base, along with the city's requirement that developers to contribute an increased portion toward the costs of infrastructure serving their communities, Calgary has been doing less with more under Nenshi. The city has been experiencing an increased infrastructure deficit in spite of an increased tax base (this coming tax year will be different, because a sharp drop in commercial property values will likely trigger a much larger increase in residential taxes that I will not blame on the current council) and steep increases in the mill rate every year. Building tunnels to nowhere, bridges that place form over function, overpriced (and in some cases plagiarized) public art, and designer libraries (nothing against libraries, but a larger, more efficient one could have been built for a significantly lower cost) has been the M.O. of the current city council and the one before it, and has been the reason that the city has not been getting the infrastructure it needs.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:17 AM   #53
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Well, so much for having a reasonable discussion about the arena.

It should pick up a bit if we can somehow shoehorn Sneer and Truedope into the discussion.
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:30 AM   #54
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It should pick up a bit if we can somehow shoehorn Sneer and Truedope into the discussion.
Funny, that's what I used to call Justin's dad.

I just don't get the indignation in posts that decry any criticism of the mayor. He's hardly above reproach. He's not an effective negotiator, and is as likely to either piss off the other party or capitulate to them as he is to actually get a good deal for the city. Well, at least he pissed off the Flames rather than capitulating to them, but just getting to work on a deal that is good for both sides would be preferable. This is not to say that the Flames were not complicit in the collapse of the previous negotiations, there is plenty of blame to go around. I just find that with Nenshi, nothing is more important than his ego, and this tends to significantly hamper his ability as a negotiator.
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Old 11-10-2018, 05:01 AM   #55
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bridges that place form over function
You mean the Peace Bridge? You might want to look up who the mayor was when that was approved.


Also, where would we be right now if the tunnel under the runway hadn't been built when it was? We sure wouldn't be planning on completing Airport Trail between Stoney Trail and the Airport. We'd either be arguing over where to get that extra billion dollars to dig a tunnel under an active runway, or trying to figure out how to widen Country Hills Blvd. We'd also likely be arguing about which of those is preferred for the next decade and still not be any closer to an answer.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:32 AM   #56
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Calgary was not a city of a few hundred thousand under Bronconnier, the population was over 1 million at the end of his final term. With an increased tax base, along with the city's requirement that developers to contribute an increased portion toward the costs of infrastructure serving their communities, Calgary has been doing less with more under Nenshi. The city has been experiencing an increased infrastructure deficit in spite of an increased tax base (this coming tax year will be different, because a sharp drop in commercial property values will likely trigger a much larger increase in residential taxes that I will not blame on the current council) and steep increases in the mill rate every year. Building tunnels to nowhere, bridges that place form over function, overpriced (and in some cases plagiarized) public art, and designer libraries (nothing against libraries, but a larger, more efficient one could have been built for a significantly lower cost) has been the M.O. of the current city council and the one before it, and has been the reason that the city has not been getting the infrastructure it needs.

What infrastructure has the city not gotten that it needs because of these projects?


The bridges: first of all, where's the form over function? They function great. Their uses are high, their uses are more functional than other pedestrian bridges (and non-pedestrian bridges) around the city. They have form accompanying their function, not in spite of it. A welcome change from the bridges that lack both form and function the penny-pinching mayors and councils of the past built. But what do you think they came at the expense of? The Peace Bridge was built with a provincial capital allocation for pedestrian infrastructure. It was conditional money that built infrastructure. The George C. King Bridge was built by the CMLC also using conditional money. What was it built at the expense of?



Art: the art is overpriced because it is tied to the infrastructure cost. Not at the expense of the project. The only reason you're seeing overpriced art is because infrastructure we need is being built.



Library: Came from the CRL and a fund that also has restricted uses. What wasn't built because of the library (more specifically, what could have been built instead using the same restricted funding sources)? Also how have we gone from 'not needing a library' to 'we could have built a bigger one?' Also what isn't efficient about the library (or similarly, what makes a library efficient)? Some of the things that made the project expensive (site location, fixed costs encapsulating the LRT) were also things that provide benefits elsewhere (taking a low value site and turning it into a useful one, freeing up other spaces for better returns). And at a lower cost, we're jut getting an uglier looking building, where's the value in that?







But to loop back around, given the funding and location restrictions these things were built with, what didn't get built that we needed?

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Old 11-10-2018, 09:41 AM   #57
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That's why nenshi's tax increases averaged $112/year compared to $44/year by mayor Bronconnier right? Please.
So you're pissed about taxes, but want to throw more taxes to build a facility for a private, for profit business?

The pro-arena, anti-tax/Nenshi crowd puzzles me to no end. Pick one.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:46 AM   #58
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my position is that at least the arena would tie his hands and prevent him from spending it on one of his many foolish "personal legacy/vision" capital projects. nenshi's already the mayor who's annual tax increases were $112/year vs. $44 by the last mayor. what do we get in Calgary for nenshi's high taxes? ideological capital projects that don't solve Calgarians' problems - so while we're at it, heck why don't we just build a freaking arena. The way the Flames are currently dealing with nenshi is perfect.
What is an ideological capital project?
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:49 AM   #59
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So you can't justify massive nenshi-era property tax increases - simply by comparing them to other cities, who have much different political beliefs than conservative cities in Alberta.
Calgary isn't really a conservative city anymore, hence people like Nenshi and Notley being in power. The shift in mindset has pissed off conservatives that like Calgary as a conservative enclave, and I don't think that's unreasonable or unexpected.

Side note, left, right, doesn't matter. Bronconnier was awful and should never be used as the bar for mayoral performance.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:51 AM   #60
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The Flames refused to agree to pay any rent (or property tax). They literally want a lease agreement where they pay sweet #### all.
The flames offered the 275 million. They framed that as 25 years of lease payments. The city wanted capital plus lease or property taxes. What I outlined would have the flames paying 275 million so whether that is up front capital or an annual payment it should fit into the flames ammount they planned on spending. The Flames refused to provide capital for the building and pay lease/property tax.
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